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#276 2022-02-16 07:33:19

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2178

Re: NASA Ivy

I remember at school in the early 60s having suffered getting a 'short back and sides' the haircut for the cool kids was 'the Boston' and the 'crew cut'. Everyone was aware that these were American style. This developed into the 1/2 inch crop. All working class English looks and the antithesis of the long haired hippies. Ironically many of us working class kids started growing our hair in the early 70s as a reaction to younger kids getting a crop.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#277 2022-02-16 08:20:21

Staxfan
Member
Posts: 719

Re: NASA Ivy

I think as early as that it was just another branch of the on going, ever evolving mod. Forever overshadowed by the more media and retail friendly 'Swinging London', hippies etc.
I think Spendthrift has got it in one 'ever evolving mod', which it was , and the American clothes came into this for me anyway, around '68,
I remember having a 'crop' in the summer of '67, only a couple of times,(this would have been up to 2 years before the term 'skinhead' came to the knowledge of the general public), I have a family photo somewhere with this haircut on holiday on the IoW, but after that never had it that short again,
Astronauts - Ian & Robbie may recall Ilia Kureakin ( Russian astronaut), visited London in around '61/62, I lived around half way between Heathrow and central London, my school was very close to the A4 the main route LHR/London, I remember the teachers getting us out of the classrooms to run up to the A4 to watch him go by, there were a lot of people watching this pass-by, doubt they'd do it for visiting Russians now.....

 

#278 2022-02-16 08:32:15

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

I may be mistaken, but didn't the original skinheads/peanuts wear their hair at a reasonable length in comparison with that dreadful, post-punk look of around 1978?  I'm sure I've seen photographs of chaps in check shirts, crombies, Levis etc. with hair longer than mine is now (gently receding, ahem). 
The astronaut-Marine Corps-Teamsters-FBI look was something I played around with in around 2008 before relaxing gently into a gentler, TRS-inspired groove.

 

#279 2022-02-16 08:58:28

Runninggeez
Member
Posts: 662

Re: NASA Ivy

Wasn't Ilia Kureakin in the Man from UNCLE. I remember Yuri Gagarin.

 

#280 2022-02-16 09:22:42

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2178

Re: NASA Ivy

Pre and post 1/2 inch and 1/4 inch crops the haircut would have been a college boy look. So the hair was a bit longer copying the earlier Mod styles perhaps.Skinhead was originally an insult term which the media picked up on. My mates would have short hair but not shaved heads. I only had one or two 1/2 inch crops before going back to college boy and then going mad and growing my hair long (David Essex style)
My vivid memory on haircuts is probably because I am now bald and I have a No.0 cut


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#281 2022-02-16 09:36:53

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

Skinhead, skinhead over there
What's it like without no 'air?
Is it 'ot or is it cold?
Skinhead, skinhead, you are bald...

Then run like mad.

 

#282 2022-02-16 09:43:44

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 658

Re: NASA Ivy

It’s great reading people’s memories of the sixties and early seventies. Too often I think those times are portrayed as kind of flicking instantly from mods’n’rockers to swinging London to football aggro skinhead to flared jeans and clogs without taking in the much more interesting nuances going on in between.

 

#283 2022-02-16 09:47:30

Uncle Ian
Member
From: North London
Posts: 224

Re: NASA Ivy

The recently published "Scorcha suede" book has a great deal of interesting stuff about this period, all told by people who were actually there at the time.

 

#284 2022-02-16 09:55:05

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

Spendthrift is right.  Denim dungarees, known as 'Bleeders', had a moment of fame in my neck of the woods.  Probably long forgotten.  Then there was the 'Budgie; jacket - worn by top boys at the Sec.Mod. only.  Very lurid socks were popular from around 1971 to 1973: lime green or orange with black hoops.  Don't forget, though, this was a rather gloomy Midlands town with a halfway decent (then) football team.  Clothing was often bought from market stalls - like the snide Crombie.

 

#285 2022-02-16 09:59:59

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

Just glancing quickly at a couple of pictures from 'Scorcha'.  It was reputed that girls who looked like Julie Driscoll dropped their knickers frequently.  In fact, some did.  Girls with shortish hair and monkey boots had to be approached with caution.  Otherwise you might get a bit of moon-stomping instead of a snog.

 

#286 2022-02-16 10:07:42

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 658

Re: NASA Ivy

Paul ‘Smiler’ Anderson certainly knows his stuff. I was around him a lot in the early 90’s. He ran an excellent RnB club in Reading on Sunday nights. Tailor made gear all round.
He put a lot of unpaid effort into fanzines, clubs etc. So deserves all the praise he gets for his books.

 

#287 2022-02-16 10:38:51

Staxfan
Member
Posts: 719

Re: NASA Ivy

Runninggeez - your right, I stand corrected, got my Ruskies mixed up , haha

 

#288 2022-02-17 09:48:17

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 789

Re: NASA Ivy

Until I discovered this forum I would not of associated skinheads with Ivy or any form of smartness.

My youth was in the Eighties and skinheads then were closely associated with punk. The new bread were all about a paramilitary look of MA1 flying jackets, bleach stained jeans that only just went down past their knees and massive doc martins. Their music of choice was Oi.
Far right views were also fashionable amongst them -and just before somebody jumps down my throat and claims that they all weren't like that - I can only go from personal experience. I never met any so called red/anti nazi skins.
Typically badly dressed, semi literate recruiters outside football grounds preaching race hate and anti-miner/union rhetoric who were a million miles away from the customers John Simons describes in his film.

Scorcha was really enlightening. I couldn't see much of a cohesive style though but some of the pictures of the suede head guys with longer hair looked really good.

I should imagine that, compared to today where getting whatever you want is relatively easy, a trip to the Ivy Shop must have been something very special.

 

#289 2022-02-17 10:41:38

Runninggeez
Member
Posts: 662

Re: NASA Ivy

I should imagine that, compared to today where getting whatever you want is relatively easy, a trip to the Ivy Shop must have been something very special.

A really good friend of mine who's three years older than me was a Suedehead around 70/71, he told me the Ivy Shop Richmond was rammed nearly every Saturday, guys coming from all over London and the Home Counties, wanting to buy Loafers, Royals, BD's & G9's. My old boss Ian once told me a story that JS ordered two black cabs to go to Heathrow, Ian was in one the other was empty. When they got to the airport Ian filled the empty cab with Brogues & Plain Caps that had come over from the States, and then sent it straight back to London, he then followed it back in the other cab. They'd sold them all in a matter of weeks.

 

#290 2022-02-17 10:53:38

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

Alvey is right, those revivalist skinheads were a bad lot.  Post-punk, there was a period of uncertainty and they were part of it.  Does anyone remember Sham 69?  Their lead singer, Jimmy Pursey, was a lovely, friendly guy but who (for some strange reason) attracted the National Front types.  Then there were the out-and-out horrors - Oi! as Alvey says.  But Two-Tone emerged and the scene became rather more anti-fascist.  I went on a big march in 1978, Trafalgar Square to Victoria Park.  Trouble was expected but, thankfully, failed to materialise.  They were anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, anti-black, generally anti-gay - anti-bloody-everything, in fact.  But, on the whole, as with the Trotskyites, it was largely two men and a dog and they would fall out over anything: somebody ordering the wrong lager or whatever - and certainly too dim to read 'Mein Kampf'. 
I haven't seen an actual skinhead of any description in years.  Nor a teddy boy.  Long may it remain that way.

 

#291 2022-02-17 11:01:40

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

There were one or two posters on here years ago who identified as 'sussed' skinheads.  They were okay but clearly on the wrong forum.  The Mod revivalists, too, were often okay but were really out of tune (if not sympathy) with what was going on here - which, in the UK at least, was a very Jewish led scene.  Frankly, if you failed to recognise the Jewish contribution you were really, well, out of the swim.  I don't think anyone was actually chased off or even made to feel unwelcome but the notion of a 'sussed' skinhead was greeted with a certain amount of incredulity.  I posted an early thread on 'The Long March Away From The Spirit Of '69' - which may have gone down badly in some quarters but probably met with the approval of the Russell Street contingent.

 

#292 2022-02-17 11:13:07

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

In fact, just thinking it through, the conflation of Ivy with 'skinhead' is hugely irritating and not even understandable.  The conflation of Ivy with 'Mod' is a good deal more so.  I was never a Mod but even I looked at the Barnes book (and others) with a certain amount of interest.  But I was too young the first time round and far too sceptical the second.  The idea of the 'Modernist' - dark glasses at midnight, Blue Note album tucked under one arm, heading off into the dawn for an espresso - struck me much more forcibly.

 

#293 2022-02-17 11:14:13

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

^ I expressed myself rather badly in the second sentence.

 

#294 2022-02-17 11:51:15

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4116

Re: NASA Ivy

‘coming from all over London and the Home Counties, wanting to buy Loafers, Royals, BD's & G9's. My old boss Ian once told me a story that JS ordered two black cabs to go to Heathrow, Ian was in one the other was empty. When they got to the airport Ian filled the empty cab with Brogues & Plain Caps that had come over from the States, and then sent it straight back to London, he then followed it back in the other cab. They'd sold them all in a matter of weeks.’

Yes. Buying shirts and shoes but not Harringtons. It was my understanding that the shoes were made in Northampton though. The sizing was U.K. too.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#295 2022-02-17 12:15:57

Staxfan
Member
Posts: 719

Re: NASA Ivy

I remember directing ‘out-of-towners ‘ in Richmond to the Ivy shop around ‘70, and on Saturdays in ‘69/70 it was rammed, Ian of Harrington’s Guildford told me one time about 25 yrs ago that on one Saturday around this time ,when he was working in the IS
they sold 60+ pairs of brogues/ plain caps, that’s a lot of leather,

 

#296 2022-02-17 12:37:41

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: NASA Ivy

I remember the Suedehead thing as being fairly shortlived, but it was a good look and could be mistaken for Ivy at a glance. But essentially they were mainly skins who had decided to stop the no 1 haircuts and dress more smartly. As we know, dressing smartly doesn’t make you any more  intelligent or thoughtful.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#297 2022-02-17 12:42:54

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

The hair was perhaps a little too long for Ivy: often centre-parted as I remember it: circa 1972.  As for the clothing...  a great many unnatural fibres in lurid colours...  Loafers with weave and tassel...  brightly-coloured socks... 
You could hear the buggers in the corridors at school, scraping their 'segs' along the tiles.

 

#298 2022-02-17 15:28:45

Runninggeez
Member
Posts: 662

Re: NASA Ivy

Yes. Buying shirts and shoes but not Harrington's. It was my understanding that the shoes were made in Northampton though. The sizing was U.K. too.

You're right about shoes being made in Northampton Kingston1an, I'm lead to believe the "Ivy Royals" which Strach, still had were made there. But the one's Ian came back from Heathrow definitely came from the US, the cabbie took them back to the Squire Shop. I'm sure some of them made it to the Ivy Shop.

 

#299 2022-02-17 16:34:38

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 789

Re: NASA Ivy

Can someone just clarify for me the JS/Ian Strach/Ivy Shop connection.
My understanding is that JS started the Richmond Ivy Shop and Squire in Brewer Street. Where does Ian come in.
I also understand that Squire expanded too, with other locations.
Did he buy the Ivy Shop from JS or simply just work for him?
When I started to shop at J Simons it was mainly just John  and Geoff I dealt with.

 

#300 2022-02-18 03:09:56

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: NASA Ivy

I think it's wider than that.  The other names have rarely been discussed, especially in recent years.

 

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