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#1 2012-02-26 10:50:49

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9052

The outer limits of shirting

Please ddscribe and/or post images of the sorts of shirts you wear or would wear for work. You can show the tamest and the boldest you would wear. Additional information such as the sorts of suits or jackets you wear would be helpful as well as what country you're in.

Im especially interested in seeing what the Bishop wears.


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
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#2 2012-02-26 14:09:54

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Mmm.............

Shirts:

Boldest: Acorn Keswick Check NG Pink. (I would wear NG Green but for casual only.) As a rule I will wear both the check and striped version of a cloth but prefer checks.

Tamest: Plain White shirt. Twill winter, Zephyr Summer.

Suits:

Boldest: Pink Chalkstripe, maybe a lightweight POW with red/blue over-check.

Tamest: Mid-grey Pick & Pick.

Ties:

Boldest: Duchamp floral (For some reason I love floral ties)

Tamest: Satin Solid.

Shoes:

Boldest: Adelaide in Chestnut calf.

Tamest: Oxford plain cap-toe in black calf


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#3 2012-02-26 18:06:23

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6150

Re: The outer limits of shirting

It all depends on what I have to do, who I am meeting, what context and weather and what I feel like plus what's clean.

Today - for no particular reason - possibly over dressed for what I am doing::

White Oxford Button Down shirt; with, Watch - gold white face chestnut leather strap; with; 3/2 button jacket almost French Blue - some texture; with; Narrow (ish) rep tie- dark blue background, deep red and gold stripes; with;mid dark Grey flannel trousers, belted with brown belt;with;Dark Brown, Brogued {cough} double monk {cough} shoes;
with; Dark wine wool/silk OTC socks.


I'd consider for most occasions the double monks are the boldest / fancy shoe, but others might consider my chestnut cap toe lace up boots bolder. You cant tell that the boots are boots except when I sit down and show them.

The button down is tame but sometimes in some circumstances here in Australia, believe it or not,  a crisp white button down is considered a bit of a small statement.

Last edited by fxh (2012-02-26 18:25:47)


To do: insert constantly changing witty, knowing and slightly ironic literary quote or reference.

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#4 2012-02-26 18:09:11

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6150

Re: The outer limits of shirting

I don't do the same thing or mix with the same people everyday.

There are somethings I wouldn't wear to some places at sometimes.

Plus I've just gone simpler and less colours lately. f'rinstance I've gone away from french cuffs and cufflinks.

I'll have to think about it

Last edited by fxh (2012-02-26 18:09:51)


To do: insert constantly changing witty, knowing and slightly ironic literary quote or reference.

http://sexyankles.tumblr.com/

 

#5 2012-02-26 18:50:55

g-
Member
Posts: 1276

Re: The outer limits of shirting

This is my wildest shirt.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u145/glcg/twotone.jpg

I don't wear it at often as I would like to beause many people do not appreciate two tone shirts, but I love it.  I find it is a nice canvas for a great tie. We all know people have perceptions, or preconceived notions, of those who wear two tone shirts (I believe I fit very few of those) so I am cautious.  I love the shrit--fabric is Thomas Mason.

Last edited by g- (2012-02-26 18:52:16)

 

#6 2012-02-27 02:58:56

Sal
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 524

Re: The outer limits of shirting

I have a shirt just like that!  I had it made in my pre-Ivy days when I wanted a shirt that was as loud and aggressive as possible in order to provoke strong reactions.

 

#7 2012-03-02 15:22:19

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The outer limits of shirting

g- wrote:

This is my wildest shirt.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u145 … wotone.jpg

I don't wear it at often as I would like to because many people do not appreciate two tone shirts, but I love it.  I find it is a nice canvas for a great tie. We all know people have perceptions, or preconceived notions, of those who wear two tone shirts (I believe I fit very few of those) so I am cautious.  I love the shrit--fabric is Thomas Mason.

I don't find that a bold shirt.

Personally, I wouldn't wear a shirt with contrast collar and cuffs as I've never been a fan of the look but I'd have absolutely no problem wearing that pattern for work It would be tame for me, not in a bad way mind.

I could see my shirt choices going down a storm t'other side of the pond. lol


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#8 2012-03-03 04:02:14

g-
Member
Posts: 1276

Re: The outer limits of shirting

formby wrote:

g- wrote:

This is my wildest shirt.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u145 … wotone.jpg

I don't wear it at often as I would like to because many people do not appreciate two tone shirts, but I love it.  I find it is a nice canvas for a great tie. We all know people have perceptions, or preconceived notions, of those who wear two tone shirts (I believe I fit very few of those) so I am cautious.  I love the shrit--fabric is Thomas Mason.

I don't find that a bold shirt.

Personally, I wouldn't wear a shirt with contrast collar and cuffs as I've never been a fan of the look but I'd have absolutely no problem wearing that pattern for work It would be tame for me, not in a bad way mind.

I could see my shirt choices going down a storm t'other side of the pond. lol

I really like the pattern.  I am thinking of having another shirt made from the same material, but without the contrasting cuffs and collar.  I just ordered a few other slightly bolder shirts from my shirtmaker.  When they arrive maybe I will post a picture or two of those.  Probably not very far out there on the Formby scale.

 

#9 2012-03-03 06:58:26

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The outer limits of shirting

g- wrote:

formby wrote:

g- wrote:

This is my wildest shirt.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u145 … wotone.jpg

I don't wear it at often as I would like to because many people do not appreciate two tone shirts, but I love it.  I find it is a nice canvas for a great tie. We all know people have perceptions, or preconceived notions, of those who wear two tone shirts (I believe I fit very few of those) so I am cautious.  I love the shrit--fabric is Thomas Mason.

I don't find that a bold shirt.

Personally, I wouldn't wear a shirt with contrast collar and cuffs as I've never been a fan of the look but I'd have absolutely no problem wearing that pattern for work It would be tame for me, not in a bad way mind.

I could see my shirt choices going down a storm t'other side of the pond. lol

I really like the pattern.  I am thinking of having another shirt made from the same material, but without the contrasting cuffs and collar.  I just ordered a few other slightly bolder shirts from my shirtmaker.  When they arrive maybe I will post a picture or two of those.  Probably not very far out there on the Formby scale.

I like and appreciate a colourful shirt but personally I wouldn't wear a bold shirt with a bold tie, I'll usually do one or the other. Bold shirt and tie can be done however, and done with great aplomb.

I also tend to save my bolder shirts and ties for wear with plainer suits as I find this provides them stronger contrast. Saying this, I am partial to wearing checked shirts with striped suits but they'll usually be ginghams or houndstooth patterns as opposed to multicoloured checks which I would save for a plain, probably mid grey which can take any combination. Mid-greys are much under appreciated IMO.

Yesterday (Friday) for example I wore a pink and blue check shirt with French cuffs and silk knots (not cuff links as I fancied a change), plain light blue satin weave tie, mid-grey pick and pick 3 piece suit a black Adelaides bulled to mirror shine.

You've got to find your own approach, after all that's what style is.

I've also given up trying to find a coherent theory regarding style as I've come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. Defining it is like trying to paint the wind.

Last edited by formby (2012-03-03 06:59:19)


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#10 2012-03-03 09:06:25

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9052

Re: The outer limits of shirting

formby wrote:

g- wrote:

formby wrote:

I don't find that a bold shirt.

Personally, I wouldn't wear a shirt with contrast collar and cuffs as I've never been a fan of the look but I'd have absolutely no problem wearing that pattern for work It would be tame for me, not in a bad way mind.

I could see my shirt choices going down a storm t'other side of the pond. lol

I really like the pattern.  I am thinking of having another shirt made from the same material, but without the contrasting cuffs and collar.  I just ordered a few other slightly bolder shirts from my shirtmaker.  When they arrive maybe I will post a picture or two of those.  Probably not very far out there on the Formby scale.

I like and appreciate a colourful shirt but personally I wouldn't wear a bold shirt with a bold tie, I'll usually do one or the other. Bold shirt and tie can be done however, and done with great aplomb.

I also tend to save my bolder shirts and ties for wear with plainer suits as I find this provides them stronger contrast. Saying this, I am partial to wearing checked shirts with striped suits but they'll usually be ginghams or houndstooth patterns as opposed to multicoloured checks which I would save for a plain, probably mid grey which can take any combination. Mid-greys are much under appreciated IMO.

Yesterday (Friday) for example I wore a pink and blue check shirt with French cuffs and silk knots (not cuff links as I fancied a change), plain light blue satin weave tie, mid-grey pick and pick 3 piece suit a black Adelaides bulled to mirror shine.

You've got to find your own approach, after all that's what style is.

I've also given up trying to find a coherent theory regarding style as I've come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. Defining it is like trying to paint the wind.

I would wear a colorful and/or bold shirt with a Duchamp tie in a heart beat and all with an aggressively striped suit. In fact, although I paused for an instant, I wore my navy suit with pink stripes, a pink checked shirt and a pink tie with a self paisley weave the other day. I felt very much in the pink. I wore bright red socks though...

It's amusing, the different layers of stylistic theory men struggle with. I think a  lot of it in the USA comes from women or the fashion industry. A lot of it is also intended for men who have little aptitude for choosing their own clothing no matter how much exposure they've had. Matching tie colors to shirts is one beginner step that most men never outgrow, seemingly from a fear of getting it wrong. Another stumbling block is the separating a pattern with a solid or mixing up the scales. In my experience tonal contrast is much more important than either of these two guide lines.

Your purpose plays a role too. I used to want to impress men in the workplace but now they can go to the devil. I dress primarily to suggest to women that I am interesting. This can include getting things wrong in a sort of invitation for them to comment. Almost all women fancy themselves as junior designers.

Men are currently a disaster. I was in a meeting with a man in a three piece suit but no tie, another in a dark tennis shirt and a third with a pale shirt and pale khakis trousers.

When a young analyst walked in wearing a chocolate brown with orange windowpane suit with a blue shirt and light brown double monks bringing the documents to me rather than the number one man (who wore a distressed mock turtle neck sweater and corduroys), I wondered how anyone knows what anyone does anymore.

Then there are your own prejudices. I dont like what I dont like. Doesn't mean other people cant wear it. One Hedge-fund guy choosing shirt cloths, saw what I was getting made up and "admired" them but claimed he could never wear it because he needed to wear very subdued checks and stripes for his work. Although I told him I have every sort of shirt, that's not what I learned from him. I learned that he just likes what he likes and he then tries to put some logic around it. I don't think the finance industry in NYC cares one wit about shirt pattern scale, unless your clients are all ancient and you are trying to evoke a memory. For myself, I find the kids love my clothes because they want every bold accessory in one outfit. Upper managements also like the way I dress because they dream of a dress code coming back.

Personally, I dont like too much texture in my shirt cloths. I dont think that makes those fabrics wrong. But I do recoil a bit when I see others wearing certain cloths. I find it hard to wear royal oxford shirts and never go for them, unless I really want the pattern. Come to think of it, I think I am in the wrong here because there is a certain modern, international vibe to textured cottons that also appeals to professional youth that I am missing out on. And as for white shirts? They are definitely "old school" at the moment. I will wear a twill if it is fine (140s 2x2 and up) but I prefer the 100s 2x2 because they perform the best and they last a long time.

I always thought the English believed mid grey suits to be somewhat dodgy. It can be a handsome color. But how handsome do we want to be and for whom? Mens style as art is an element but that can also be a failing. There are many theories to what men can wear, some are time honored, others are trapped in time and can date a person. I think that not quite getting it right can be way more effective than "nailing" it. It takes a lot of courage to drop a pale yellow tie on a pink shirt but the discordant effect can be sartorial dynamite.


In the photo below, I would wear the top two shirts with a striped suit and would certainly drop a Duchamp tie on them if I wanted. Same thing for the yellow striped shirt but I would more likely wear a red tie with it.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858/goodstuffsmall.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
Facebook: FNB Dandy  Twitter: @DevilsIslandFNB Instagram: fnbdandy

 

#11 2012-03-03 09:33:34

g-
Member
Posts: 1276

Re: The outer limits of shirting

formby wrote:

g- wrote:

formby wrote:

I don't find that a bold shirt.

Personally, I wouldn't wear a shirt with contrast collar and cuffs as I've never been a fan of the look but I'd have absolutely no problem wearing that pattern for work It would be tame for me, not in a bad way mind.

I could see my shirt choices going down a storm t'other side of the pond. lol

I really like the pattern.  I am thinking of having another shirt made from the same material, but without the contrasting cuffs and collar.  I just ordered a few other slightly bolder shirts from my shirtmaker.  When they arrive maybe I will post a picture or two of those.  Probably not very far out there on the Formby scale.

I like and appreciate a colourful shirt but personally I wouldn't wear a bold shirt with a bold tie, I'll usually do one or the other. Bold shirt and tie can be done however, and done with great aplomb.

I also tend to save my bolder shirts and ties for wear with plainer suits as I find this provides them stronger contrast. Saying this, I am partial to wearing checked shirts with striped suits but they'll usually be ginghams or houndstooth patterns as opposed to multicoloured checks which I would save for a plain, probably mid grey which can take any combination. Mid-greys are much under appreciated IMO.

Yesterday (Friday) for example I wore a pink and blue check shirt with French cuffs and silk knots (not cuff links as I fancied a change), plain light blue satin weave tie, mid-grey pick and pick 3 piece suit a black Adelaides bulled to mirror shine.

You've got to find your own approach, after all that's what style is.

I've also given up trying to find a coherent theory regarding style as I've come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. Defining it is like trying to paint the wind.

^^After years of searching for a method to create a coherent style I have, for the last weeks, been thinking a similar thing.  Formby, you encapsulated the thought much more succintly than I could in the above statement.

Last edited by g- (2012-03-03 09:36:55)

 

#12 2012-03-03 09:54:48

g-
Member
Posts: 1276

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Film Noir Buff wrote:

formby wrote:

g- wrote:

I really like the pattern.  I am thinking of having another shirt made from the same material, but without the contrasting cuffs and collar.  I just ordered a few other slightly bolder shirts from my shirtmaker.  When they arrive maybe I will post a picture or two of those.  Probably not very far out there on the Formby scale.

I like and appreciate a colourful shirt but personally I wouldn't wear a bold shirt with a bold tie, I'll usually do one or the other. Bold shirt and tie can be done however, and done with great aplomb.

I also tend to save my bolder shirts and ties for wear with plainer suits as I find this provides them stronger contrast. Saying this, I am partial to wearing checked shirts with striped suits but they'll usually be ginghams or houndstooth patterns as opposed to multicoloured checks which I would save for a plain, probably mid grey which can take any combination. Mid-greys are much under appreciated IMO.

Yesterday (Friday) for example I wore a pink and blue check shirt with French cuffs and silk knots (not cuff links as I fancied a change), plain light blue satin weave tie, mid-grey pick and pick 3 piece suit a black Adelaides bulled to mirror shine.

You've got to find your own approach, after all that's what style is.

I've also given up trying to find a coherent theory regarding style as I've come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. Defining it is like trying to paint the wind.

I would wear a colorful and/or bold shirt with a Duchamp tie in a heart beat and all with an aggressively striped suit. In fact, although I paused for an instant, I wore my navy suit with pink stripes, a pink checked shirt and a pink tie with a self paisley weave the other day. I felt very much in the pink. I wore bright red socks though...

It's amusing, the different layers of stylistic theory men struggle with. I think a  lot of it in the USA comes from women or the fashion industry. A lot of it is also intended for men who have little aptitude for choosing their own clothing no matter how much exposure they've had. Matching tie colors to shirts is one beginner step that most men never outgrow, seemingly from a fear of getting it wrong. Another stumbling block is the separating a pattern with a solid or mixing up the scales. In my experience tonal contrast is much more important than either of these two guide lines.

Your purpose plays a role too. I used to want to impress men in the workplace but now they can go to the devil. I dress primarily to suggest to women that I am interesting. This can include getting things wrong in a sort of invitation for them to comment. Almost all women fancy themselves as junior designers. Which is why men should never shop with women.  As far as I can tell, most women dress to compete with each other--making shopping with a woman a double disaster.

Men are currently a disaster. I was in a meeting with a man in a three piece suit but no tie, another in a dark tennis shirt and a third with a pale shirt and pale khakis trousers.

Las night Adam Carolla (of all people) pointed out that many rich people don't even look it any more.  He made the point that Mark Cuban wears T-Shirts and Jeans.  His point wasn't the typical igent point about being underdressed, but in doing so Cuban is trivilizing his own achievements.  I think men are scared to look succesful.  I don't know if it is some sort of changing sexual roles or what but there is definitely something going on which is negative.

When a young analyst walked in wearing a chocolate brown with orange windowpane suit with a blue shirt and light brown double monks bringing the documents to me rather than the number one man (who wore a distressed mock turtle neck sweater and corduroys), I wondered how anyone knows what anyone does anymore.


Then there are your own prejudices. I dont like what I dont like. Doesn't mean other people cant wear it. One Hedge-fund guy choosing shirt cloths, saw what I was getting made up and "admired" them but claimed he could never wear it because he needed to wear very subdued checks and stripes for his work. Although I told him I have every sort of shirt, that's not what I learned from him. I learned that he just likes what he likes and he then tries to put some logic around it. I don't think the finance industry in NYC cares one wit about shirt pattern scale, unless your clients are all ancient and you are trying to evoke a memory. For myself, I find the kids love my clothes because they want every bold accessory in one outfit. Upper managements also like the way I dress because they dream of a dress code coming back.

Personally, I dont like too much texture in my shirt cloths. I dont think that makes those fabrics wrong. But I do recoil a bit when I see others wearing certain cloths. I find it hard to wear royal oxford shirts and never go for them, unless I really want the pattern. Come to think of it, I think I am in the wrong here because there is a certain modern, international vibe to textured cottons that also appeals to professional youth that I am missing out on. And as for white shirts? They are definitely "old school" at the moment. I will wear a twill if it is fine (140s 2x2 and up) but I prefer the 100s 2x2 because they perform the best and they last a long time.

I always thought the English believed mid grey suits to be somewhat dodgy. It can be a handsome color. But how handsome do we want to be and for whom? Mens style as art is an element but that can also be a failing. There are many theories to what men can wear, some are time honored, others are trapped in time and can date a person. I think that not quite getting it right can be way more effective than "nailing" it. It takes a lot of courage to drop a pale yellow tie on a pink shirt but the discordant effect can be sartorial dynamite.


In the photo below, I would wear the top two shirts with a striped suit and would certainly drop a Duchamp tie on them if I wanted. Same thing for the yellow striped shirt but I would more likely wear a red tie with it.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858 … fsmall.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Really great post, FNB.  Lots to think about.  I worry that the male desire to drop the tie and wear clothing which does not creates a look of establishment but one of sameness is more suggestive a leadership void than people may be willing to admit. 

I would feel very comfortable wearing the one on top, but I have to admit I am working my way to the second.

Last edited by g- (2012-03-03 09:57:09)

 

#13 2012-03-03 10:24:16

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9052

Re: The outer limits of shirting

g- wrote:

Film Noir Buff wrote:

formby wrote:


I like and appreciate a colourful shirt but personally I wouldn't wear a bold shirt with a bold tie, I'll usually do one or the other. Bold shirt and tie can be done however, and done with great aplomb.

I also tend to save my bolder shirts and ties for wear with plainer suits as I find this provides them stronger contrast. Saying this, I am partial to wearing checked shirts with striped suits but they'll usually be ginghams or houndstooth patterns as opposed to multicoloured checks which I would save for a plain, probably mid grey which can take any combination. Mid-greys are much under appreciated IMO.

Yesterday (Friday) for example I wore a pink and blue check shirt with French cuffs and silk knots (not cuff links as I fancied a change), plain light blue satin weave tie, mid-grey pick and pick 3 piece suit a black Adelaides bulled to mirror shine.

You've got to find your own approach, after all that's what style is.

I've also given up trying to find a coherent theory regarding style as I've come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. Defining it is like trying to paint the wind.

I would wear a colorful and/or bold shirt with a Duchamp tie in a heart beat and all with an aggressively striped suit. In fact, although I paused for an instant, I wore my navy suit with pink stripes, a pink checked shirt and a pink tie with a self paisley weave the other day. I felt very much in the pink. I wore bright red socks though...

It's amusing, the different layers of stylistic theory men struggle with. I think a  lot of it in the USA comes from women or the fashion industry. A lot of it is also intended for men who have little aptitude for choosing their own clothing no matter how much exposure they've had. Matching tie colors to shirts is one beginner step that most men never outgrow, seemingly from a fear of getting it wrong. Another stumbling block is the separating a pattern with a solid or mixing up the scales. In my experience tonal contrast is much more important than either of these two guide lines.

Your purpose plays a role too. I used to want to impress men in the workplace but now they can go to the devil. I dress primarily to suggest to women that I am interesting. This can include getting things wrong in a sort of invitation for them to comment. Almost all women fancy themselves as junior designers. Which is why men should never shop with women.  As far as I can tell, most women dress to compete with each other--making shopping with a woman a double disaster.

Men are currently a disaster. I was in a meeting with a man in a three piece suit but no tie, another in a dark tennis shirt and a third with a pale shirt and pale khakis trousers.

Las night Adam Carolla (of all people) pointed out that many rich people don't even look it any more.  He made the point that Mark Cuban wears T-Shirts and Jeans.  His point wasn't the typical igent point about being underdressed, but in doing so Cuban is trivilizing his own achievements.  I think men are scared to look succesful.  I don't know if it is some sort of changing sexual roles or what but there is definitely something going on which is negative.

When a young analyst walked in wearing a chocolate brown with orange windowpane suit with a blue shirt and light brown double monks bringing the documents to me rather than the number one man (who wore a distressed mock turtle neck sweater and corduroys), I wondered how anyone knows what anyone does anymore.


Then there are your own prejudices. I dont like what I dont like. Doesn't mean other people cant wear it. One Hedge-fund guy choosing shirt cloths, saw what I was getting made up and "admired" them but claimed he could never wear it because he needed to wear very subdued checks and stripes for his work. Although I told him I have every sort of shirt, that's not what I learned from him. I learned that he just likes what he likes and he then tries to put some logic around it. I don't think the finance industry in NYC cares one wit about shirt pattern scale, unless your clients are all ancient and you are trying to evoke a memory. For myself, I find the kids love my clothes because they want every bold accessory in one outfit. Upper managements also like the way I dress because they dream of a dress code coming back.

Personally, I dont like too much texture in my shirt cloths. I dont think that makes those fabrics wrong. But I do recoil a bit when I see others wearing certain cloths. I find it hard to wear royal oxford shirts and never go for them, unless I really want the pattern. Come to think of it, I think I am in the wrong here because there is a certain modern, international vibe to textured cottons that also appeals to professional youth that I am missing out on. And as for white shirts? They are definitely "old school" at the moment. I will wear a twill if it is fine (140s 2x2 and up) but I prefer the 100s 2x2 because they perform the best and they last a long time.

I always thought the English believed mid grey suits to be somewhat dodgy. It can be a handsome color. But how handsome do we want to be and for whom? Mens style as art is an element but that can also be a failing. There are many theories to what men can wear, some are time honored, others are trapped in time and can date a person. I think that not quite getting it right can be way more effective than "nailing" it. It takes a lot of courage to drop a pale yellow tie on a pink shirt but the discordant effect can be sartorial dynamite.


In the photo below, I would wear the top two shirts with a striped suit and would certainly drop a Duchamp tie on them if I wanted. Same thing for the yellow striped shirt but I would more likely wear a red tie with it.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858 … fsmall.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Really great post, FNB.  Lots to think about.  I worry that the male desire to drop the tie and wear clothing which does not creates a look of establishment but one of sameness is more suggestive a leadership void than people may be willing to admit. 

I would feel very comfortable wearing the one on top, but I have to admit I am working my way to the second.

Letting women choose your clothes to attract women may be a good idea bur following female principles of dressing is a bad one. For one thing, women actually have far less latitude to deviate than men do. How can this be you ask? After all, women can wear fabrics and colors and textures that no sane man can go near. Women may have greater choice in those things but they have very little leeway for weight or body shape, hair style, and even behavior/reputation. Besides, as much as women would like to think it isnt this way, men ultimately dress women. This is true at the most abstract levels through male desire and male designers.

Effective male dress for business follows the concept of uniform, which is why the English school is so very nice; smart for the women and yet still one of the lads. English color choices are military with an appreciation for flowers and rock and roll. It's a very effective mix which most of the English aren't even aware of.

Pink and lavender are amazing shock colors, more so in the USA.  Which is why I like them so much. It's the sartorial equivalent of a double barreled shot gun blast.

I think there is something to wealthy people hiding in lousy, street clothing. It's partly protective, after all when Im in a suit, hustlers assume I have money to give. You might ask, why does this thought remain when the A players are so dressed down? The answer is "constructs". Constructs provide us with that sartorial reasonable man who might never exist but still remains in our collective memory. That's why on TV shows, everyone wears smarter clothes than the real life industries they portray and we do not find it odd. On the show, "How I met Your Mother", the character Barney is renowned for always wearing a suit and even did a video for the show about how he loves wearing a suit. I dont watch the program enough but it fascinates me that suit wearing fascinates others.

About the tie-less thing. is it a metaphor for castration? Could very well be. It also speaks to male vanity. Men always seem to want to wear the collar size from their school days. If you can leave the collar open, well you're still 18 years old but the lie gets exposed when you have to cinch it up with a necktie. Perhaps also, the handsome men of Hollywood lead the average Joe to think he will look as cool with an open collar. I think also very ordinary people get off on being recognized as special even when dressed like bums. I draw the line when they worry about why I wear a tie.

A few more shirts. I would wear the stripes to work, no problem. The union jack is a short sleeved shirt for wear with jeans.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/585/smalljack.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
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#14 2012-03-03 11:25:20

g-
Member
Posts: 1276

Re: The outer limits of shirting

^^^Glad you started this thread.  Makes me think I can step out a little more with my pattern choices.

I do think there is something to the castration metaphor.  You will often see women trying to pull off a man's tie.  Has to be some phallic metaphor to whole thing.

 

#15 2012-03-03 11:35:51

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14316

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Aye, more great insight from FNB. He articulates the chaos of the modern world through his sartorial lens.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#16 2012-03-03 14:53:42

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9052

Re: The outer limits of shirting

g- wrote:

^^^Glad you started this thread.  Makes me think I can step out a little more with my pattern choices.

I do think there is something to the castration metaphor.  You will often see women trying to pull off a man's tie.  Has to be some phallic metaphor to whole thing.

Well i think it's a very good sign when a woman strokes my tie. I am not that excited about men doing it. I wonder what Kinsey would say about that?

I think it's self castration. Men want to be boys in a youth culture; I am not necessarily immune from that emotion myself. I think the problem is men think they are making themselves more hip when in fact they are making themselves more invisible.


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
Facebook: FNB Dandy  Twitter: @DevilsIslandFNB Instagram: fnbdandy

 

#17 2012-03-03 15:19:49

Ali Kebab
Member
Posts: 491

Re: The outer limits of shirting

FNB,

The top one is lovely. Is it Thomas Mason?


http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858/goodstuffsmall.jpg

 

#18 2012-03-03 15:55:12

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9052

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Ali Kebab wrote:

FNB,.

The top one is lovely. Is it Thomas Mason?



http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858 … fsmall.jpg

It's ringhart


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
Facebook: FNB Dandy  Twitter: @DevilsIslandFNB Instagram: fnbdandy

 

#19 2012-03-03 16:16:57

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Film Noir Buff wrote:

formby wrote:

g- wrote:


I really like the pattern.  I am thinking of having another shirt made from the same material, but without the contrasting cuffs and collar.  I just ordered a few other slightly bolder shirts from my shirtmaker.  When they arrive maybe I will post a picture or two of those.  Probably not very far out there on the Formby scale.

I like and appreciate a colourful shirt but personally I wouldn't wear a bold shirt with a bold tie, I'll usually do one or the other. Bold shirt and tie can be done however, and done with great aplomb.

I also tend to save my bolder shirts and ties for wear with plainer suits as I find this provides them stronger contrast. Saying this, I am partial to wearing checked shirts with striped suits but they'll usually be ginghams or houndstooth patterns as opposed to multicoloured checks which I would save for a plain, probably mid grey which can take any combination. Mid-greys are much under appreciated IMO.

Yesterday (Friday) for example I wore a pink and blue check shirt with French cuffs and silk knots (not cuff links as I fancied a change), plain light blue satin weave tie, mid-grey pick and pick 3 piece suit a black Adelaides bulled to mirror shine.

You've got to find your own approach, after all that's what style is.

I've also given up trying to find a coherent theory regarding style as I've come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. Defining it is like trying to paint the wind.

I would wear a colorful and/or bold shirt with a Duchamp tie in a heart beat and all with an aggressively striped suit. In fact, although I paused for an instant, I wore my navy suit with pink stripes, a pink checked shirt and a pink tie with a self paisley weave the other day. I felt very much in the pink. I wore bright red socks though...

It's amusing, the different layers of stylistic theory men struggle with. I think a  lot of it in the USA comes from women or the fashion industry. A lot of it is also intended for men who have little aptitude for choosing their own clothing no matter how much exposure they've had. Matching tie colors to shirts is one beginner step that most men never outgrow, seemingly from a fear of getting it wrong. Another stumbling block is the separating a pattern with a solid or mixing up the scales. In my experience tonal contrast is much more important than either of these two guide lines.

Your purpose plays a role too. I used to want to impress men in the workplace but now they can go to the devil. I dress primarily to suggest to women that I am interesting. This can include getting things wrong in a sort of invitation for them to comment. Almost all women fancy themselves as junior designers.

Men are currently a disaster. I was in a meeting with a man in a three piece suit but no tie, another in a dark tennis shirt and a third with a pale shirt and pale khakis trousers.

When a young analyst walked in wearing a chocolate brown with orange windowpane suit with a blue shirt and light brown double monks bringing the documents to me rather than the number one man (who wore a distressed mock turtle neck sweater and corduroys), I wondered how anyone knows what anyone does anymore.

Then there are your own prejudices. I dont like what I dont like. Doesn't mean other people cant wear it. One Hedge-fund guy choosing shirt cloths, saw what I was getting made up and "admired" them but claimed he could never wear it because he needed to wear very subdued checks and stripes for his work. Although I told him I have every sort of shirt, that's not what I learned from him. I learned that he just likes what he likes and he then tries to put some logic around it. I don't think the finance industry in NYC cares one wit about shirt pattern scale, unless your clients are all ancient and you are trying to evoke a memory. For myself, I find the kids love my clothes because they want every bold accessory in one outfit. Upper managements also like the way I dress because they dream of a dress code coming back.

Personally, I dont like too much texture in my shirt cloths. I dont think that makes those fabrics wrong. But I do recoil a bit when I see others wearing certain cloths. I find it hard to wear royal oxford shirts and never go for them, unless I really want the pattern. Come to think of it, I think I am in the wrong here because there is a certain modern, international vibe to textured cottons that also appeals to professional youth that I am missing out on. And as for white shirts? They are definitely "old school" at the moment. I will wear a twill if it is fine (140s 2x2 and up) but I prefer the 100s 2x2 because they perform the best and they last a long time.

I always thought the English believed mid grey suits to be somewhat dodgy. It can be a handsome color. But how handsome do we want to be and for whom? Mens style as art is an element but that can also be a failing. There are many theories to what men can wear, some are time honored, others are trapped in time and can date a person. I think that not quite getting it right can be way more effective than "nailing" it. It takes a lot of courage to drop a pale yellow tie on a pink shirt but the discordant effect can be sartorial dynamite.


In the photo below, I would wear the top two shirts with a striped suit and would certainly drop a Duchamp tie on them if I wanted. Same thing for the yellow striped shirt but I would more likely wear a red tie with it.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858 … fsmall.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Ha...

A while ago I was sat down trying to collect and write down my thoughts on what to me defined British style and just as I thought I was getting it into some shape, I'd have a little browse about on the internet and I'd see something which completely blew my theory out of the water whilst seeming so British. I gave up in frustration.

Maybe, its a task best left to the outsider.

I suspect that what I call mid-grey maybe darker than what would be considered mid-grey in the US. You should know by now that I'm useless at describing colours. wink

Of those shirts you posted above. I really like the bottom two, in fact I have them but in different colours and I was wearing a similar shirt to the pink and blue check shirt at the top of the pile which I referred to in a previous post, so it goes without saying that I like that.

Not keen on the red/black check though which has a kinda lumberjack vibe to it. Is it for casual?


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#20 2012-03-03 16:29:18

Ali Kebab
Member
Posts: 491

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Film Noir Buff wrote:

Ali Kebab wrote:

FNB,.

The top one is lovely. Is it Thomas Mason?



http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858 … fsmall.jpg

It's ringhart

Thanks buffy. You posted the photo at the very right time.

Ringhart and Acorn both will do the fabric show in London in a few days time. I'll ask my cousin in London to see if he can purchase some lengths from them directly.

Here is the link for the textile exhibition.

http://www.textileforum.co.uk/

 

#21 2012-03-03 16:34:06

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Ali Kebab wrote:

Film Noir Buff wrote:

Ali Kebab wrote:

FNB,.

The top one is lovely. Is it Thomas Mason?



http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858 … fsmall.jpg

It's ringhart

Thanks buffy. You posted the photo at the very right time.

Ringhart and Acorn both will do the fabric show in London in a few days time. I'll ask my cousin in London to see if he can purchase some lengths from them directly.

Here is the link for the textile exhibition.

http://www.textileforum.co.uk/

Acorn sell directly to the public.


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#22 2012-03-03 16:40:59

Ali Kebab
Member
Posts: 491

Re: The outer limits of shirting

formby wrote:

Ali Kebab wrote:

Film Noir Buff wrote:


It's ringhart

Thanks buffy. You posted the photo at the very right time.

Ringhart and Acorn both will do the fabric show in London in a few days time. I'll ask my cousin in London to see if he can purchase some lengths from them directly.

Here is the link for the textile exhibition.

http://www.textileforum.co.uk/

Acorn sell directly to the public.

I know. It's the top one in buffy's photo I need to get. I've been looking for this particular gingham for quite a while.

 

#23 2012-03-03 18:18:34

g-
Member
Posts: 1276

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Ali Kebab wrote:

formby wrote:

Ali Kebab wrote:


Thanks buffy. You posted the photo at the very right time.

Ringhart and Acorn both will do the fabric show in London in a few days time. I'll ask my cousin in London to see if he can purchase some lengths from them directly.

Here is the link for the textile exhibition.

http://www.textileforum.co.uk/

Acorn sell directly to the public.

I know. It's the top one in buffy's photo I need to get. I've been looking for this particular gingham for quite a while.

No doubt there are some nice clothes there.  Would love to see more to get ideas.

 

#24 2012-03-03 18:34:10

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9052

Re: The outer limits of shirting

formby wrote:

Film Noir Buff wrote:

formby wrote:

I like and appreciate a colourful shirt but personally I wouldn't wear a bold shirt with a bold tie, I'll usually do one or the other. Bold shirt and tie can be done however, and done with great aplomb.

I also tend to save my bolder shirts and ties for wear with plainer suits as I find this provides them stronger contrast. Saying this, I am partial to wearing checked shirts with striped suits but they'll usually be ginghams or houndstooth patterns as opposed to multicoloured checks which I would save for a plain, probably mid grey which can take any combination. Mid-greys are much under appreciated IMO.

Yesterday (Friday) for example I wore a pink and blue check shirt with French cuffs and silk knots (not cuff links as I fancied a change), plain light blue satin weave tie, mid-grey pick and pick 3 piece suit a black Adelaides bulled to mirror shine.

You've got to find your own approach, after all that's what style is.

I've also given up trying to find a coherent theory regarding style as I've come to the conclusion that it's inherently contradictory. Defining it is like trying to paint the wind.

I would wear a colorful and/or bold shirt with a Duchamp tie in a heart beat and all with an aggressively striped suit. In fact, although I paused for an instant, I wore my navy suit with pink stripes, a pink checked shirt and a pink tie with a self paisley weave the other day. I felt very much in the pink. I wore bright red socks though...

It's amusing, the different layers of stylistic theory men struggle with. I think a  lot of it in the USA comes from women or the fashion industry. A lot of it is also intended for men who have little aptitude for choosing their own clothing no matter how much exposure they've had. Matching tie colors to shirts is one beginner step that most men never outgrow, seemingly from a fear of getting it wrong. Another stumbling block is the separating a pattern with a solid or mixing up the scales. In my experience tonal contrast is much more important than either of these two guide lines.

Your purpose plays a role too. I used to want to impress men in the workplace but now they can go to the devil. I dress primarily to suggest to women that I am interesting. This can include getting things wrong in a sort of invitation for them to comment. Almost all women fancy themselves as junior designers.

Men are currently a disaster. I was in a meeting with a man in a three piece suit but no tie, another in a dark tennis shirt and a third with a pale shirt and pale khakis trousers.

When a young analyst walked in wearing a chocolate brown with orange windowpane suit with a blue shirt and light brown double monks bringing the documents to me rather than the number one man (who wore a distressed mock turtle neck sweater and corduroys), I wondered how anyone knows what anyone does anymore.

Then there are your own prejudices. I dont like what I dont like. Doesn't mean other people cant wear it. One Hedge-fund guy choosing shirt cloths, saw what I was getting made up and "admired" them but claimed he could never wear it because he needed to wear very subdued checks and stripes for his work. Although I told him I have every sort of shirt, that's not what I learned from him. I learned that he just likes what he likes and he then tries to put some logic around it. I don't think the finance industry in NYC cares one wit about shirt pattern scale, unless your clients are all ancient and you are trying to evoke a memory. For myself, I find the kids love my clothes because they want every bold accessory in one outfit. Upper managements also like the way I dress because they dream of a dress code coming back.

Personally, I dont like too much texture in my shirt cloths. I dont think that makes those fabrics wrong. But I do recoil a bit when I see others wearing certain cloths. I find it hard to wear royal oxford shirts and never go for them, unless I really want the pattern. Come to think of it, I think I am in the wrong here because there is a certain modern, international vibe to textured cottons that also appeals to professional youth that I am missing out on. And as for white shirts? They are definitely "old school" at the moment. I will wear a twill if it is fine (140s 2x2 and up) but I prefer the 100s 2x2 because they perform the best and they last a long time.

I always thought the English believed mid grey suits to be somewhat dodgy. It can be a handsome color. But how handsome do we want to be and for whom? Mens style as art is an element but that can also be a failing. There are many theories to what men can wear, some are time honored, others are trapped in time and can date a person. I think that not quite getting it right can be way more effective than "nailing" it. It takes a lot of courage to drop a pale yellow tie on a pink shirt but the discordant effect can be sartorial dynamite.


In the photo below, I would wear the top two shirts with a striped suit and would certainly drop a Duchamp tie on them if I wanted. Same thing for the yellow striped shirt but I would more likely wear a red tie with it.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3858 … fsmall.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Ha...

A while ago I was sat down trying to collect and write down my thoughts on what to me defined British style and just as I thought I was getting it into some shape, I'd have a little browse about on the internet and I'd see something which completely blew my theory out of the water whilst seeming so British. I gave up in frustration.

Maybe, its a task best left to the outsider.

I suspect that what I call mid-grey maybe darker than what would be considered mid-grey in the US. You should know by now that I'm useless at describing colours. wink

Of those shirts you posted above. I really like the bottom two, in fact I have them but in different colours and I was wearing a similar shirt to the pink and blue check shirt at the top of the pile which I referred to in a previous post, so it goes without saying that I like that.

Not keen on the red/black check though which has a kinda lumberjack vibe to it. Is it for casual?

When you say the bottom two, you mean the check and the stripe with some green in it? That stripe I found in a remnant shop two years ago and thought it would make a UK friendly casual shirt. Think it could even work to the office now. The lumber jack check shirt is a short sleeved shirt which will appeal to that NYC urban hip crowd.


I think you're right, it takes an outsider to appreciate what's English. My feel for what is English is constantly changing. Ties I thought very English a year ago, I now will not touch. I do get complimented by ex pat Brits over here which means that there are things the English like that they may not necessarily wear. That's tapping into the cultural mind-spring.

Ringhart have a very good feeling for the English aesthetic. Thanks for suggesting them wink

I like that pink/blue jumbo check too. I could do that short sleeved, with double cuffs etc... and might do!

English style is not that hard to figure out as a construct. The problem is that certain tribes and individuals do their own thing. From my pov, when an English chap chooses a shirt tie combination, even when it's horrible, it still fascinates me because it's inherently English. Part of what makes English culture is the bad part too; there must always be a balance. The English are under a lot of constraints to conform. They have very strong color rules and are in love with small variations of the same old thing. I was watching this series Minder from the 80s and the shirt fabrics the men wear are still available! Sometimes the suppression explodes and a sartorial super nova results. But even these flourishes are somewhat conformist, to the extent that they still follow color rules. I suppose the area I dont examine that closely are the true eccentrics because they are too outside of what I am interested in. As it is, I have quite a few people tell me that no one else dresses like me here in the USA. That's eccentric enough.

A better experiment is to view English style through the BBC shows and films. For me, I test myself by looking at clothing items on various English websites to figure out what will sell out and what will get marked down.

Not only do individuals do their own thing but the English merchants have their own ethos'. Have you ever noticed that one tie maker will use pale pink but not red and another hot pink but not pale pink? Even for a finicky nation, England's acceptable choices are greater than any one tribe can exhaust.


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
Facebook: FNB Dandy  Twitter: @DevilsIslandFNB Instagram: fnbdandy

 

#25 2012-03-03 19:13:37

Oo Bop Sh'bam
Ivy Iconoclast
From: within.
Posts: 4067

Re: The outer limits of shirting

Here is an example of how I think you can clash colours and patterns and still have them work... I think this way works better for men's dress as I think that the tonal approach even when done well, makes a man look too feminine. I ted to now pick colours that are discordant. Like tetrads, or very wide analogs. So below you have the greeny/blue sat along side a green, and both their complementary colours are there, the yellow, and the red. This means the outfit isn't just as obvious as a two colour complementary palette, but has this next layer of depth by using a close tetrad combination.


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m07x7n9BrA1r118ppo1_400.jpg

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0c9tqfm6T1qf8edno1_400.png

Where as here I went for a tonal approach, and I just think it looks twee and camp as fuck, I'm definitely moving to the more contrasting colours, than the analog palettes. Also, quick tip if you are dressed in blue, and red, liven it up with an indigo, and a yellow to contrast. The indigo will lift the whole thing. Here I did it with the loafers.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m03tjkQmSv1r118ppo1_400.jpg

I reckon the problem is, for a man to look good he shouldn't look like he has tried to match colours, which is what these analog palettes do, they look too feminine.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0c9ug8BcH1qf8edno1_400.png

Last edited by Oo Bop Sh'bam (2012-03-03 19:37:51)


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