Chévere wrote:

re ascots:
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
The ascot has a proper and totally sensible place in a large cold room amongst a social gathering of polite acquaintances. Keeps you warm and allows for a relaxed but very presentable tenue.
An open necked shirt would be sort of "too much skin", besides there is the cold room to contend with, unless you're hogging the fireplace. A buttoned up shirt without a tie looks like you're not relaxed, and a necktie is definitely a sign you misjudged the setting.
A more pedestrian and practical man (me) would be perfectly at ease in a wife beater t-shirt under my open necked shirt and casual sport coat, a choice that alas was not around when ascots became popular for the settings just mentioned.
I have found an occasion for use at work which provides a halfway reasonable excuse for wearing an ascot. My back office is drafty in winter, and being an office condo and all there is no fireplace. Occasionally on Fridays I see new patients in consultation for surgery. If I feel like being a little more relaxed (it being Friday afternoon and all) a wife beater will not do the trick as it is somewhat disrespectful ( and poor business strategy) vis a vis the woman who is about to decide if she is going to give me thousands of dollars so I can liposuction her thighs. In those specific circumstances no more than 3-4 times a year, I find the ascot does the job of keeping me warm nicely and the patient appreciates my gesture of taking the effort to look nice, yet casual.
Needless to say, only the top 2 buttons are loose and the ascot is tidy.

The cravat is a most sensible piece of clothing, and, if we are honest, most of them aren't even all that flamboyant when viewed by themselves as a piece of material. I've only got a couple and have only worn them once or twice a year and then, I'm afraid, I've worn them somewhat furtively.

Surely its the movies that has done them in guv. Bloody Terry Thomas and other dubious shysters and flim flam artists. It surely wasnt anyone actually wearing them in real life? It has to be the symbolism of them. edit:: I always imagine poor old Elvis' manager Colonel Tom Parker as wearing a cravat. I'm not sure he ever did though.

I don't own a wife beater or a Chesty Bond or even a Jackie Howe but do like to wear white high collar t-shirts under open necked shirts. (The only use for a t-shirt, other than cleaning shoes and hands,  in my rule book) - Nor do I have many women "who is about to decide if she is going to give me thousands of dollars so I can liposuction her thighs." - I'm assuming this is an quaint american euphemism for what we might call "snorkling off the  map of Tassie" , or, "How can I tell you I love you when I can hardly breathe down here"

Anyway many years go I had a bit of a thing for that look old European men had of wearing a buttoned up white shirt with no tie and a suit and two days grow of beard.  I sussed that to do it right the collar of shirt has to be about half to one size too big. Then it works.

Which brings up that other RED FLAG - more than one button undone on a shirt.

Last edited by fxh (2012-04-11 09:53:46)

fxh wrote:

FNB - I always like it when you list two/twin/side vents as standing out in USA. Its cute.

He must be joking, because I see them everywhere - even in the suburbs!

FXH said:
- I'm assuming this is an quaint american euphemism for what we might call "snorkling off the  map of Tassie" , or, "How can I tell you I love you when I can hardly breathe down here"

If women were offering me thousands of dollars to go "snorkeling off the map of Tassie", it is doubtful I would come up for air or have the time to muse about ascots in this fora, lest it was to debrief at the NSFW thread.

Popeye Doyle wrote:

Is part of the reason the ascot is despised is because it is usually silk, and men are not supposed to wear silk next to their skin? Apart, of course, from some silk shirtings favored by gangsters, pimps, etc. There is nothing else intrinsically wrong with the ascot other than the unfortunate associations of pretension, etc.  Men can wear huge gaudy wool scarves without much worry, and of course the turtleneck, if you have big enough Michael York-sized sideburns, and bandana-themed scarves with knots.

A cravat can also be cotton. I would love to wear one regularly but my target social audience cannot handle them. Maybe it's more than that, maybe it's a confidence issue. Maybe it's more a familiarity issue because I actually feel that I wear clothes which are a lot pushier than a cravat without feeling self conscious.

Like a sweater vest a cravat needs to be worn breezily. And, if you wear a cravat, wear a cravat, please do not wear a pocket square tied around the throat like a tourniquet.

I think I would rather wear a bow tie than a cravat but maybe not...hmm.

I have no idea why this bothers me when the vast majority of men in the city wear the most bizarre things imaginable. A lot of the things men are wearing suggests softening gender roles in a way that makes a floral shirt and old conservative bastion of testosterone. Antiquities tend to make me feel a bit ridiculous, I suppose. The cravat should be very modern because its easy, loose, comfortable. I have one but I rarely have the moxy to wear it. I think about the places i go to. Everyone seems to think of me as a relatively regular fellow and would certainly make me miserable about the cravat. I suppose I should be insulted. Maybe I need to test this out.

Silk shirts are awful with one exception, a silk evening shirt in a high grade, light weight cream crepe de chine silk is very nice, very louche.

David Reeves wrote:

Must say though no one has ever even mentioned anything when I wear an ascot. I suppose if you wear it and it overpowers you (or you think it does), you shouldn't wear it. I tend to wear them in winter with a piece of knitwear and a tweed jacket. Worn "formally" or like a playboy I think they are trickier and this aspect of them is more in people consciousness and probably the reason for their lack of popularity.

I can't get the Terry-Thomas image out of my mind when cravats are discussed. All that's missing is a cigarette holder.

........what a Binder....!!!!!

David Reeves wrote:

formby wrote:

David Reeves wrote:

Must say though no one has ever even mentioned anything when I wear an ascot. I suppose if you wear it and it overpowers you (or you think it does), you shouldn't wear it. I tend to wear them in winter with a piece of knitwear and a tweed jacket. Worn "formally" or like a playboy I think they are trickier and this aspect of them is more in people consciousness and probably the reason for their lack of popularity.

I can't get the Terry-Thomas image out of my mind when cravats are discussed. All that's missing is a cigarette holder.

........what a Binder....!!!!!

http://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/uploads/ … thomas.jpg

Exactly.

I saw the Three Stooges Movie and the man who came with his wife for a visit to the orphanage was wearing a cravat. I suppose it says wealthy, leisure class. Maybe someone doesn't want to wear it for that reason; you could get mugged.

fxh wrote:

david reeves - its not that people might mention if I was wearing a cravat. If people say anything then there is no great problem - its out in the open and no real unknown judgment is made - it s the unspoken judgment that is the worry. Especially is the worry of judgment as a cad when those judging are not even conscious of why the think what they think.

If they think, consciously but to themselves, "I don't like cravats - they make people look like upper class cads and bounders", then I am enough of a believer in the talking therapies to think that naming the thing makes it less likely to influence behaviour.

I was watching some current TV show and I couldn't tell you if they were vampires, teenagers with problems or some CSI show but the men were all wearing (matter of factly) checked shirts in varying degrees of large scale settings.

Now, is this the current fashion? I feel like they were all four of them supposed to be wearing these large check shirts matter of factly but at the same time they all chose them because they're heroes, and heroes know how to choose the coolest clothes on their own without any help or interest in the subject.

Are the wardrobers putting the men in this because the clothing industry wants to sell them or are they trying to ape what they think the composite American male is wearing nowadays?

Have we arrived at the concept that the cool, rugged individualist wears a conformist uniform? Should I run from such a notion or use it to my advantage? Generic individualism? Prepackaged? I find that i sometimes deduct points from that guy visibly wearing a "hot" item but wearing au courant from head to toe is when I think the man was dressed by another or by a catalog.

I noticed shirt companies make the checked chest pockets with the fabric on the bias, a tradition I also notice in 1960s films which means it has either been done for a long time or it has been revived. Either way, I am glad I have any and all checked chest pockets on my shirts set to match rather than conflict with the pattern on the shirt body.

In the early 2000s I would have called Nantucket red trousers a major sartorial red flag (they were an infallible sign of douchebaggery in college), but now they seem quite ordinary and pleasant. Don't tell the iGents that they have a British country life connotation, they will become overexcited.

From the OP



That's Alan Cornett, aka Alan C, "Trad" moderator on Ask Alex About Cruiser.

Last edited by Bishop of Briggs (2012-04-26 11:06:37)

Bishop of Briggs wrote:

Film Noir Buff wrote:

Wow! Had no idea people worried about such things so much.

http://cambridgetab.co.uk/opinion/look- … d-trousers

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/fashion-st … -trousers/

Mr Fitzpatrick likes his red trousers - http://the-shoe-snob.blogspot.co.uk/201 … -some.html

From Zara!!

Red pants might be the best part of that ensemble. I dont think small men should wear trendy stuff because they run the risk of looking precious.

Look, red pants can look nice, they can look bad. It depends on all sorts of factors. I personally, wouldnt wear them except for the amazing Harrisons cottons and getting them made by my tailor. Also, I wear them infrequently, not as a signature. If you're the guy in the red pants, that may not be a good thing. I can think of wore things men wear. One man at this bar in mid town had on a shirt so hideous, I almost told him as much, which I never do. I was tempted though.

Film Noir Buff wrote:

One man at this bar in mid town had on a shirt so hideous, I almost told him as much, which I never do. I was tempted though.

I'm tempted to comment on this story, but I think you're so deep into your own self-justifying headspace that it wouldn't be taken as constructive criticism but only whatever this week's explanation is for why only you dress well and no one else does.

However, being a generous person at heart (and unable to keep my mouth shut), I will post this much: Based on long-term trends I've noticed in the content of your posts, I think you've drifted off dangerously into a DofW or Flusser fantasy land which may seem completely logical from inside, but looks like deranged from outside. I think you need to refocus yourself. I think you need your own Golden Path. I recommend stepping back from all this stuff and taking a deep breath, throwing out half your clothing, stop buying (or bespeaking) new stuff, and wear the same smaller, basic wardrobe for a full year without thinking about it other than to decide if today is a business day or a casual day. I think you will find yourself a better dressed (and happier) man after that year is up.

Chévere wrote:

I've got a Red Pants story.
When I went to college, fresh from Puerto Rico in 1972, I had a pair of hip hugger red bell bottom jeans.
I wore them once in a while. Everybody else wore the uniform (worn and tattered blue jeans, flannel shirt, and a Parkas coat when it got cold). I thought "the uniform" was dreary and depressing but that the american kids would soon see the light of fun clothing. Hadn't they watched Mod Squad?
One night, a friend of mine (who is now a well known radio personality in Chicago) asked to borrow the pants. Proud of myself and encouraged by his open mindedness, I not only lent him the pants but let him "Check a few things in my closet".
After a few beers downtown I came back to the dorm, where my friend and a few others were playing a few numbers as a makeshift clownish imitation of "The New York Dolls" (for those of you old enough to remember). Unbeknownst to me my closet had served as the costume dept.
Needless to say I didn't know who the New York Dolls were, or what they meant, but when I walked into the room I was the recipient of the full  panoply of "ribbing", from friendly to aggressive retaliations for offenses I must have unwittingly (well, to be fair some wittingly) committed.
So much for the rugged individualism of american college youth, I thought, and from then on I wore "the uniform".
So as of today the issue of red pants is still hard to get my head around, much less buy a pair.
But I can see why someone would walk around yammering "Look at my f*cking Red Pants!"

That's a good story. From research, the NY Dolls were very original both in clothing and sound. I know, the pressure to conform is massive which is why I wonder what all the clamoring is about for unique clothes from every quarter? Are people throwing these clothes out? Why would everyone want to look different and the same bot at once? How is that possible?

A friend of mine's gf's father is setting her up with her own clothing boutique in spite of the fact that she knows nothing about running a business, fashion design or what will look good on women beyond her own personal taste. Her single contribution seems to be her love of shopping. She doesnt dress very well either. Oh well, maybe I need to start a clothing blog for women.

Film Noir Buff wrote:

Wow! Had no idea people worried about such things so much.

http://cambridgetab.co.uk/opinion/look- … d-trousers

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/fashion-st … -trousers/

I guarantee Saskia Goldman has never met a man like me who wears red trousers.