Too nipped in for me, at least on that promo pic...

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

Jimbo wrote:

carpu65 wrote:

P.S. the soulders in BB 1965 photo are the same that in Jpress suits today.
Maybe,in both cases,  is the dummy?

Might I be really, really rude and say that that is maybe not quite right ?

Press have never reproduced the Brooks shoulder. Or collar roll...

Yes, that's right. My impression as well.

Jimbo wrote:

I have in my collection examples from both clothiers spanning the time frame you mention and, in my maturity, I now just see Press as a pastiche of the original pure Brooks look.

Pretty much just the buck chasing fashion crap of its day.

Yeah - The style is called 'Ivy League' & it's all about 19 year olds...


Pah !

... but that's more than harsh...

Nah... Certainly not fashion crap.

And talking about contemporary J.Press.... Even if they "don't sell Ivy League" anymore....

At least, they keep a traditional American style, whereas Brooks has changed more dramatically since the last 20, 25 years.

Contemporary Brooks is almost the same as any Eurotrash.

Looking back, Press were just cashing in on the Brooks look. Even officially they talk about 'bringing' that look to New Haven & Yale.

The look was already there.

It was higher quality fashion than we know today, but it was fashion.

And Press were always inferior to Brooks in terms of quality, cut & construction.

I used to be a real J. Press fan & I still could be again... All I ask for is the Natural Shoulder & the old details.

They did actually stay Ivy for longer than Brooks - Brooks put in around 89 years & Press did around 100. 

But why am I bitching - J. Press in Japan still do Ivy.

Jimbo wrote:

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

Jimbo wrote:

Might I be really, really rude and say that that is maybe not quite right ?

Press have never reproduced the Brooks shoulder. Or collar roll...

Yes, that's right. My impression as well.

Jimbo wrote:

I have in my collection examples from both clothiers spanning the time frame you mention and, in my maturity, I now just see Press as a pastiche of the original pure Brooks look.

Pretty much just the buck chasing fashion crap of its day.

Yeah - The style is called 'Ivy League' & it's all about 19 year olds...


Pah !

... but that's more than harsh...

Nah... Certainly not fashion crap.

And talking about contemporary J.Press.... Even if they "don't sell Ivy League" anymore....

At least, they keep a traditional American style, whereas Brooks has changed more dramatically since the last 20, 25 years.

Contemporary Brooks is almost the same as any Eurotrash.

Looking back, Press were just cashing in on the Brooks look. Even officially they talk about 'bringing' that look to New Haven & Yale.

The look was already there.

It was higher quality fashion than we know today, but it was fashion.

And Press were always inferior to Brooks in terms of quality, cut & construction.

I used to be a real J. Press fan & I still could be again... All I ask for is the Natural Shoulder & the old details.

They did actually stay Ivy for longer than Brooks - Brooks put in around 89 years & Press did around 100. 

But why am I bitching - J. Press in Japan still do Ivy.

That sounds more like it...

Fashion is a loaded term, too.

Wasn't there a book on Brooks "...where fashion is a tradition" or something along these lines in the title?

Oliver wrote:

You'd be surprised how many young guys I see working retail menswear in too-tight poorly tailored overpriced off the rack designer coke bottle cut suit jackets.

You want to come to the Netherlands, it is a specific requirement to wear too tight, corseted and too short jackets to work in men's retail. The worse thing is, they push this look on all those idiotic enough to shop in their stores. Many an unwary expat has arrived home with a brand new over priced jacket which can only induce mockery and laughter in one's missus and peers.

Agreed.

And I can't stress enough just how much of all of this is all just marketing. Press & Brooks present themselves just as you say.

Problem is when you have a 1957 Harris Tweed Sack to compare things with.  Then you start to question 'The Tradition' on offer out there today.

Southwick has been thought by some to be the best 'Trad' RTW / MTM... But if you've ever seen a 1962 Southwick... They've changed a lot.

http://www.southwick.com/models

Yeah, everybody is talking about 'Tradition', but who is actually really representing it with new RTW / MTM clothing out there outside of England & Japan ?

I can see this sack with a bit of shape suiting a pear shaped guy like Leer. Nice and short too.

Last edited by One For Bop (2012-05-24 14:23:52)

Maybe that's also to do with presentation.

But you're right, they do look stiff somehow.

It lacks that absolutely necessary "generosity". They don't look comfortable!

So that's the current Southwick Douglas?

A few years ago, they had a very American "preacher's cut".

Now it looks exaggeratedly slim and short, almost tight.

Something inbetween would have been way better.

Maybe if you size up it looks easier and not that stiff. I'm not sure, though.

They indeed look stiff and armoured.

I wonder why they gave him the glasses for the last pic - the only pic with a dark background. It is only pic where his upper body is leaning more to his left.

What is the message here, what is the message...

4F Hepcat wrote:

Axelist wrote:

What is the message here, what is the message...

I find it very odd, as a fashion world outsider, that the acceptable face of male models is a twerp with a jacket several times too small in length and body size. Why? I dunno' we've been here before and its not going away. It's when they peddle this look to the unsuspecting buyer, that I find most offensive.

I suppose it mirrors high fashion for women which is modelled by anorexic waifs that do not look as though they could muster the energy or interest for sexual activity. I can only conclude that the insiders of the fashion world are so wrapped up in what they are doing that their perception of what might appeal to the average person is warped.

The models used for mainstream clothing suppliers are so much better, check out these lusty babes from the Freemans Home Shopping catalogue:

http://www.freemans.com/Plus-Size-Range … 81+699+706

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

I suppose it was always about an up- to date version of their traditional Ivy Style. Then there was a period, probably late 90s/ early 2000s when they slowly introduced a little bit more padding and structure than usual, similar to the shoulder of the Updated American Silhouette/ Paul Stuart/ BB #2, but keeping some of the more obvious Ivy details such as the lack of darts...

Is possible that this padding is because the modern cloth is much more ligh and flabby that old flannels and tweeds?

carpu65 wrote:

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

I suppose it was always about an up- to date version of their traditional Ivy Style. Then there was a period, probably late 90s/ early 2000s when they slowly introduced a little bit more padding and structure than usual, similar to the shoulder of the Updated American Silhouette/ Paul Stuart/ BB #2, but keeping some of the more obvious Ivy details such as the lack of darts...

Is possible that this padding is because the modern cloth is much more ligh and flabby that old flannels and tweeds?

It's just a different shoulder construction. The Boom Years were filled with lightweight suits as well as heavy Tweeds.

Maybe this is the start of the problem.

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/BlackFlee … ;WT.srch=1

Also, Southwick is now being guided by Mark McNeary.