I think also that we see the Ivy style as classic, hence our rejection of any further lame marketing incarnations like 80s Preppy. And yet our pre-eminent Ivy designer in England, John Simons, always keeps the classic look current. Never 'With a twist', which is naff, but more with the sense of a living tradition of Ivy style that lives on always appropriate for its times.

Another gap in Chensvold's Ivy knowledge exposed.

He also neglects the 30-odd years of the 'Ivy' style's existence before it was named 'Ivy' as a marketing tool and he contradicts himself by saying that Ivy and Preppy are one and also that they are branches of the same tree.

He really just wants to lump the two together for his advertisers as there are more Prep brands than Ivy & that's what he's after.

I anticipate that Richard Press will offer us some kind of 'What's in a name?' piece next. Well, we marketing men know better than all that. 

Jim.

Complicated I think Jim, RL isn't Ivy or is it Ivy with a modern twist? Tommy H is in the same boat. Prep isn't Ivy or is it Ivy with a modern twist? Polo, Tommy H and Prep are all very popular and can be seen everywhere. Clearly this is modern Ivy to most people, if, they know where the roots of the brands/style come from. Otherwise its just clothes.

Or is he talking about people that reject the above for past period Ivy? In which case I'm sure the same can be said of lots of Americans.

Just the usual culture clash isn't it?
Ivy league was the latest thing over here in my day. The latest fashion from abroad which then put down roots and grew a following here. I think it was all fashion in America too and that's why they keep changing the name and making up new ones. They want it to be a tradition but they don't have any traditions so they manufacture them.
Talking of "with a twist" Ivy clothes are just English clothes with a twist. Is America now after English clothes with a twist with a twist? That sounds like a twist too far to me!

Only Chubby Checker can decide on this one!

Last edited by Patrick_Fields (2012-07-26 04:44:11)

Not to contradict anyone but I'd say contemporary classics. Classic clothes for now without any of the "left field" fashion stuff.
Remembering Preppy it was fashion. It wasn't classic at all if you knew the classics. I might be too conservative but I thought it was a rip off of the classic style and a debasing of it. A fashion industry cash-in on those who knew no better. All throughout Preppy you could still buy Ivy so why get involved in such a silly advertising campaign? It was for kids.

http://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/viewtopic.php?id=11191

When i see modernist i think mr. L. Johnson, and mr. S. Songhurst.

MarkCoyle wrote:

The 'Modernists' of the mid-late 1950s, being modern-jazz inspired London youngsters but without a scene label were inspired by the Ivy League look of visiting USA GIs.

I think you will find that Liverpool had Modernists in abundance too in this period: those like the 'Cunard-Yanks' who were actually in New York regularly, working class lads with access to modern jazz and who were bringing it back. It wasn't all London-centric and most GI's were not based in London post-war.

Another thing, London compared to the continent was extremely restrictive in allowing American jazz musicians into the country to play. Even Chet in his prime was not allowed to play!

London was not the open jazz city as we allow ourselves to sometimes be conned into thinking: Paris and Stockholm were much more receptive. Modern jazz was deep underground.

I think Mod has in someway replaced the Teds - you know the ones who were still middle-aged teddy-boys in the 70s and 80s and who through lifestyle choices didn't hang around much longer. I remember plenty of these types in my childhood and when I first started work.

Mod is the same, (and let it be known, The Jam was not a Mod band: they just has a Mod as a leader. I still consider them part as punk/New Wave) and now its middle-aged dudes declaring themselves as unrepentent mods to the grave.

Does that apply to anyone or just the under 30s Speccy?

I was meaning the; We should unite in our love of Modernist style... comment.

Hepcat - that's true, but popular historical reccollection/imagination/legend/myth centres on London about this period.   I'm sure other port cities did have a similar ebb and flow.   The reason I have mentioned GIs in London as that it is documented record by those at the time who in interviews recalled that their inspirations of that time were seeing American's in their clothes around Soho.    We know that Liverpool was one of the main points of cultural exchange and where a fair chunk of the UK's 'race' records of the time came in as packing, which were key references in the evolution of style from the clothes worn on the covers (and of course the music within).

This whole conversation is why I said the terms are now so debased we need to stop using them.  With that, I bow out of this and any other conversation related to Mod for the forseeable future.