Did those monks not knock some o' the learnin' into ye Henry?

I think people on both sides of of this farcical debate make the same mistake. It's all shaky rhetoric really. Can a minuscule handful of guys on a forum really serve to represent a style on an entire continent? Likewise, can a widely-read blog or a word like "trad" really serve as a metonym for the style in America? Likewise, can a twentysomething really speak definitively about what was in the 1960s and earlier based upon something he saw on eBay? We jump to all sorts on conclusions when they serve a purpose, like spending 30 seconds on the Tailor Caid website and suddenly becoming an expert on the design and marketing of Ivy in Japan.

When, really, what we are engaged in is a separate hobby entirely. Reading, blogging, and posting about clothing is a different thing from being well dressed and buying and enjoying the clothes, and let's face it, if the market for this stuff was limited to only the people who talk about it online, everyone would be out of business, from York Street to Black Fleece to O'Connells to Andover Shop. There are legions of people who buy and wear this stuff without worrying about Trad or what trouser bottom width Steve McQueen may have worn, and they really are the silent majority.

I think you're right Zach, to be honest I don't give a stuff about any of it - I just like wearing the clothes. As you will see from my posts, I have absolutely nothing to add to any debate on what it all means except flippancy.

It only gets weird when people take it seriously.

It's all a bit of a laugh for me. But then I've been trolling since before it was called trolling. Back then it was just called being a cheeky wee prick.

I've said it all before. Not interested in the campus, not interested in what the look is to anyone but me. Any comments made that imply something contrary are likely because it's funny to watch Chens climb the walls in response. Look at that establishment/marketing comment. Very fun. This place was more or less built by Trolls. It's the heritage of this place, innit? I love me some heritage.

I will happily obsess over the width of someones trousers, though I don't think I've ever mentioned McQueens hem, but it is only about the image and not the iconography in the image. I want the hem on my own trousers to look right and I'll obsess over an image if it means I can get that right with my own strides.

Not sure who the twenty something ebay expert is..... but whoever it is, he sounds like a right cocky wee shit.

Last edited by Liam Mac (2013-02-11 08:44:49)

^^^
I think you are right with regards the UK Robbie, i just don’t see it here myself.
Even though i believe he has spent time in the UK I assumed Zach was mainly
Referring to the states. Makes sense it’s their style but on my limited experience stateside i must admit
To not being really impressed with your “average Joe's” offerings.

There is very little 'Ivy' left in Philadelphia for example as far as I can tell.  I am American now but my origins are Welsh, accent and all intact I think, and I feel entitled to listen to excellent links to blues tracks left for our 'Celtic' chums.

Interestingly I think Ivy in UK has an appeal to non-establishment people, if I can express it that way?  Modernist and not 'English'.  It is interesting how many afficianados on this forum are 'Celtic', Jewish, Liverpudlian etc., 'marginal' Brits. you might say: myself included, so marginal I became American with little difficulty, though I love London still.  Here I can wear Red Trousers as we all know.
Jimmy has the edge in this debate.  Christian I think though he has a lot of interest to say, has missed some kind of central point, we all do sometimes, like all of us sometimes don't 'get' a joke once in a while: I wish I knew how to explain it to him.
America is a continent though, California is, from the vantage point of Phila. another planet almost, you feel closer to LA in Crouch End than one does on Cape Cod I think?  New York, though only two hours drive, is another place too.  As for 'Dixie'!  Well that is the place where us Celts went when we realized we could be even more bonkers there than we could in Dublin or Merthyr Tydful.  Philadelphians do 'get irony' by the way, that is why they snowballed Santa Claus, Californians, very often don't.  I don't think irony is big in North Dakota either.

JS to me with a big smile - "You've done a lot of harm."