If he's so high and mighty how come he lives in a purple shoebox?

Nothing to do with me Carpu. I wasn't born until 1768.

It's become to be very symbolic.

I am missing something.
its a wee jun which was supposedly originally a copy of a Norwegian shoe
hence the name.CC is an ethnic Norwegian/American,no still don't get it?

Eller jeg vil kutte dine fingre av.

Lets compromise and just drop the piano on him.

I have got to say i find the current debate on IS about why Ivy exists this side of the Atlantic really interesting.
Some good points really from a different perspective although i have never really got my head around the term "Fogey".




Comment by Anglophile Trad — February 11, 2013 @ 11:02 am

Considering the fact that many of us have admittedly chosen tweeds, cords, regimental ties, etc., because they make us feel like our idea of English country gentlemen, I really don’t understand Brits who have adopted Ivy style when they can get the real thing in their own country.



Comment by Cameron — February 11, 2013 @ 2:31 pm

I think the main distinction between the British “Ivy” enthusiasts and the American Ivy crowd is that the term “Ivy” in Britain (and perhaps on the Continent of Europe as well) is a fashion term that corresponds to what people in the furniture trade would call “mid-century modern”. “Ivy” style was all the rage in the US in the 50s and most of the 60s - and the fact that it had incubated in the college culture of the pre-war period is immaterial to the fact that it was the fashionable style associated with the American jazz, art, and to a limited degree rock & roll, that people associate with all that was cool in that period.

The British Ivy-fans are really just like the teddy boys, and rockabillies, who also fetishize vintage clothes and accessories, although the Ivy fans aim for a look associated with upper middle class tastes of the period, and the rockabillies favor an exaggerated redneck biker look.

So, when a British person says “Ivy” just mentally translate it to “collegiate beatnik”, or “American mod”.

To them the fact that marketers used the historic origins of the style in the liberal arts colleges of the American Northeast (although to be fair the style was also evolving in the liberal arts colleges of the South and Midwest - I’m sure if you looked at pictures of students at Oberlin or Vanderbilt in the 20s and 30s, they’d look not too different from the kids at Princeton or Yale, or Bucknell, Bowdoin, or Colgate, for that matter) as a selling point is irrelevant - that’s just the source of the label “Ivy”. To them what interesting about the style is its association with the jazz and arts culture of the 50s and early 60s, a period when it was a universal style that had long burst out of its collegiate incubation chamber.



Comment by Mr. Wyllys — February 11, 2013 @ 2:54 pm

@Anglophile Trad… I actually grappled with this question myself for sometime. Why would the English latch on to American Ivy, when they already have their own version (Fogey or Toft or whatever you want to call it)…Well I did come up with a theory…and I should say I’m not an expert at all. My theory is that in England “fogey”is mostly associated with Eton, Oxford or Cambridge…On the other hand American Ivy, because it is different form the dress of an English country gentleman, and because American Ivy is sometimes seen on jazz album covers and had a influence on the Mod subculture, it becomes more acceptable to an Englishman from a working class or lower middle class backround, particularly one who dabbled in Mod or Northern Soul.

Last edited by Armchaired (2013-02-11 15:16:57)

The Omega Man is a good film, as I recall.  The 70s were the golden age of films.

Got you.  I last saw the film in 1997, so that would be unlikely.