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#26 2013-12-29 07:04:17

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Yes I like it too.
















Or you mean geographically?


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#27 2013-12-29 07:05:26

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Ivy 1947-1954


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#28 2013-12-29 07:29:02

doghouse
Member
Posts: 5147

Re: Ivy 1947-1954


Hide thy infants, hide thy Lady, and hide thy husband, alas they art forcing sexual intercourse upon the entire populace. - Wm Shakespeare

 

#29 2013-12-29 08:42:54

Goodyear welt
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 3089

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Talking of Longwings...does anyone know if you get can them in a grain and smooth mix?


Rocking traditional, current and classic Italian Ivy since 2011.

 

#30 2013-12-29 09:49:42

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

GW, theres the Cheaney Victor not sure if that fits your brief..

http://www.cheaney.co.uk/classic/206/victor-brogue-in-burnished-chestnut-with-mahogany-grain


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#31 2013-12-30 02:45:11

The Woolster
Ivy Antenna
Posts: 1829

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Last edited by The Woolster (2013-12-30 02:49:19)

 

#32 2013-12-30 03:18:57

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

You may be right then. Can I have the links to your evidence please.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#33 2013-12-30 03:27:04

Armchaired
Ivy I.V.
From: Old England
Posts: 7580

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

1959 seems to be the date they were first introduced by Florsheim


�Careful with that axe Eugene.�

 

#34 2013-12-30 03:39:17

The Woolster
Ivy Antenna
Posts: 1829

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

 

#35 2013-12-30 03:44:16

The Woolster
Ivy Antenna
Posts: 1829

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

 

#36 2013-12-30 03:50:35

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Have to concur with The Woolster here.
Florsheim were making a long wing blucher before the USA got involved in WW2, as part of their 'Sport Shoe' range.
The earliest reference I can find is a 1936 editorial in Esquire which specifically mentions Florsheim as a source of a longwing as opposed the more common wing-tip style (the article is itself about the 'radical' style of Edward Prince of Wales in the 1920s and how it was now (1930s) effecting mainstream US style).
Yuca, 1956 appears to be the launch of the 'Imperial' line of shoes for Florsheim (hence no ads for them before that for the Kenmoor we know and love) the launch comes a short while after the reorganisation of the companies ranges following the acquistion by International Shoe Company in 1953.


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#37 2013-12-30 03:59:18

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

I must admit I ws initially surprised about the 59 date, however as the site owner seems to know his stuff, I took it as gospel. But it sounds like the l/w goes back a lot further. Do you have a link for the Esquire editorial?


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#38 2013-12-30 04:27:06

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

There's no internet link yet Yuca, but the microfiche archive is currently being scanned for Esquire Magazine to put online soon.
That's how I got to dig through a big chunk of it last year, I was supposed to be advising on 'data storage' for them.


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#39 2013-12-30 07:20:46

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Yuca,
There's a references to the Esquire article in  both ....
'Icons of Men's Style' by Josh Sims
and
'Dressing the Man: Mastering the Art of Permanent Fashion' by A. Flusser

Which is why I looked it up in the first place, Edward PoW was a bit of an obsession for me a while back.


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#40 2013-12-30 09:02:43

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15988

Re: Ivy 1947-1954


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#41 2013-12-30 09:32:54

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

It appears that the longwing, in a non-gunboat incarnation, certainly existed before 59. Apparently it was Florsheim who introduced the longwing gunboat, and according to the above Florsheim were making longwings in the 30s; so it may be that the Florsheim longwings of the 30s were gunboats.

The proprietor of Vintage Shoe Addict has kindly given me the following info:


"Longwing Gunboat" is a specific version/ style of the longwing.  Yes, the longwing, in a different style, has been around since at least the 1940's.  Florsheim added the thick double sole & the 360 degree goodyear welt.

Here is the florsheim version (albeit a later version than the 1959 Viking)

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab11 … G_8895.jpg

The longwing, in its basic design, had nowhere near the impact on US shoemaking that the gunboat version did.  The gunboat has been sold many milions of units and remains a style of popularity, with versions by AE & Alden still made in the US.

Allan McAfee (before they re-labeled Church's shoes) made a longwing version in the 1940's... but, again, no 360 degree welt and single sole.

As an addendum, I have found an earlier GUNBOAT longwing by Florsheim that dates back to their mid-1950's line.  I have documented it, but have yet to find the time to update the site.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#42 2013-12-30 09:35:26

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15988

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Thanks Yuca.


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#43 2013-12-30 10:13:17

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Yuca
your original post just said 'longwing' and not 'longwing gunboat', hence my, and I think  Wololster's, comments.

Last edited by Acton_Baby (2013-12-30 10:13:49)


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#44 2013-12-30 10:22:29

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

That's because I had no idea that non-gunboat longwings used to exist. Do you think the pre-50s longwings were ever gunboats?


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#45 2013-12-30 10:30:33

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Yuca we are getting into 'Budapester' type territory there and there were American copies post-war of that style of longwing (still not quite gunboats but heading in that direction).
Pre-war and just post war-the UK would have been making the closest to a 'longwing gunboat' hence their other name, for marketing purposes in the US, in the late50s/early 60s period was 'english brogues'.

Last edited by Acton_Baby (2013-12-30 10:31:53)


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#46 2013-12-30 10:33:49

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

So it was only in the 50s that the longwing gunboat, i.e. as we understand it in classic ivy terms, appeared.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#47 2013-12-30 10:41:17

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15988

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

I've just always conjured a vision of the gunboat when thinking about a longwing.  The two have been pretty much synonymous in my mind.  Until now!


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#48 2013-12-30 10:44:27

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

American made probably yes,
but Trickers and Churches both made for US retailers before that and many of the UK bespoke makers had US 'Trunk Shows' , so the styling may have its origins there.


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#49 2013-12-30 11:04:42

Acton_Baby
Member
From: West London
Posts: 3848

Re: Ivy 1947-1954

Allen Edmonds Longwing and Longwing-Spectator shoes from about the early 1940s are the earliest I can find that are US made that fit the full brief.
I'll dig up some links, but I think there's a picture on vintageshoeaddict.com 'gunboat' pages.


"I have about 100 pairs of pyjamas. I like to see people dressed comfortably."
Hugh Hefner

 

#50 2013-12-30 11:22:27

Goodyear welt
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 3089

Re: Ivy 1947-1954


Rocking traditional, current and classic Italian Ivy since 2011.

 

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