Its a very good point Dom, the German diaspora (basically the German speaking central Europe zone)
is the second biggest ancestry group in the united states (after the British).
their influence  wasn't just Beer,hamburgers and hotdogs

This is one of the things I like about this forum, there's always something to learn about. I have never heard of wooden shoe pegging until now. Great stuff!

This page has references to shoe pegging in New England shoe making.

http://brattleborohistory.com/merchant-manufacture/the-old-shoe-peg-factory.html

I'm surprised that wood pegs would stand up to wear in wet conditions, you would expect them to rot quite quickly. The Union Army evidently weren't happy with it as a manufacturing method and wanted their boots to be stitched.

More information and a picture of wood pegged soles here.


http://www.zimmermannkim.com/blog/2011/12/17/fully-wood-pegged-handmacher-primus/

Last edited by Leer R. (2014-01-02 00:47:58)

Nice!

It's probably similar with the European origins of the sack suit or rather the general origin of the suit from the humble sack suit. I believe that it was derived from an all-European 18th century peasant garment, called "Bauernkittel" in German, and probably coming from Paris around 1820 it started to get worn as suits, two piece and three-piece, single-breasted and double breasted, single and double vented etc. as an informal garment that became urbanised.

And, yes, By 1840 or at least 1850 it would be all around the world and certainly have reached Britain and America.

The sack suit and jacket would appear in all shapes, or rather would be constantly changing its shape, and would be worn as all sorts of work and sports clothes, even a
s military uniforms, and by 1880 there was even a short sack coat for the evening, the dinner jacket or Tuxedo.

The No. One sack suit that Brooks introduced at the turn of the century would not have been very different from various British and European sack suits of that time but Brooks basically stuck with that shape with only minor modifications in their #1 model the most prominent being the move from 4 to 3 button front coat after WWI. British and European and also other American tailors and outfitters in general would move to more structured styles of suits with pronounced shoulders and defined waistlines, influenced by British military tailoring traditions but Brooks stuck with the original natural shoulder undarted sack jacket and the plain front full cut straight leg slacks and improved ready to wear standards.

So while I agree that there are common roots with the European sack suits, I believe it would havebeen filtered through England, a continental influence via the UK sounds always most likely for Brooks. New York and New England just kept the turn-of the-century Anglo-influence, twisted it in their own way, without losing touch with blighty.

I already stated that the last of American shoes - especially the shape of the toe box - is more English of course... there is nothing like the Budapester toe box. It's a mix I suppose. The Norwegian styles, especially from AE or Florsheim, are interstingly enough very similar to what has been worn here for the last 70 years though. That American shoes are mostly fat bastards is more likely the central European influence as in England only country boots were as fat, never half shoes. The Brits prefer also Oxfords. That said, Brooks Brothers was all about British shoes...

Viennese suits are always natural shouldered and never too waisted. In a book about bespoke menswear (cannot scan and post it due to copyright, but I might find a way) I saw a pattern for a sakko from 1911. It is stated that it has no front darts, a natural shoulderline, and three buttons...

The typical Viennese suit style is far away from German style, it also derived from various influences from the Austro Hungarian Empire...

Today only the Old Money wears well tailored suits with the right trouser length etc., the rest believes that it couldn't get better than Hugo Boss. Here in Vienna as well as elsewhere...

Last edited by Leer R. (2014-01-02 22:29:09)

Last edited by Russell...Street (2014-01-03 04:52:09)

Last edited by Yuca (2014-01-03 05:30:49)

Last edited by Russell...Street (2014-01-03 09:05:25)