... Just for the other side of the coin, I've always been struck by how clean and loving my working class Mate's homes always are. My lot always lived in a fog of dust and wood ash. They're jolly accepting too and free of many of the prejudices that I've noticed elsewhere. But maybe that's just my fortunate choice of friends.

They didn't care about class either. To them I was just Jim, bonkers, but for real. They were very secure in who and what they were and had no grudges based on class.

Why would they have  ?

... So why does the Internet attract the socially insecure quite so much ?

'Trads' sneer down on the rest of humanity and 'Mods' sneer up.

Pointless.

Both camps are largely plebeian and pretentious in their own different way.

Their posts are like a handful of bitten fingernails as they fret away about what concerns them... Never pausing to think that their concerns might not concern others.

  - I'd also like to float the idea that I might be lying again with all my stories of ladies in ball gowns peeing into wine glasses... Remember that I am from a Secondary Modern School in Macclesfield and got a bad grade in Woodwork...

But it has exposed some interesting attitudes on here.

Now -

When peeing into a wine glass you need one with quite a full bowl. Just for coverage. The world of which I'm writing of was the world of stockings and not tights which came later to those higher up the social scale... And so access was easy. The undergarments would just be pulled to one side, the wine glass held close and bingo. The glass was then tipped down the loo, rinsed, and left on the side for whoever was cleaning up the morning after (Usually a nice lady up from the village, who 'did' for you).

An entirely normal and ordinary part of life. The alternative would have been to take your elaborate dress off and ain't nobody got time for dat.

- Enjoy knowledge !

Best -

thanks for clarifying...
I don't believe my dear old ma ever owned a ballgown, she was a chirpy Cockney lass from the East End.

... 'Hold Ups', I think they were called, were big in the '80s too - Stockings with a kind of grippy elasticated top that didn't need suspenders. I think it was a golden era for female underwear... Everything was nicely framed and easily accessible with just the pop of three press studs.

Are there any other heterosexuals on this forum ?

I kept saying it should ?

Not Ivy anymore, is it ?

- Always looking after the integrity of the Ivy forum ...   

Best -

Bewildering.

People keep saying that I like the Working Class when I don't. I don't like any class, I just like people one by one.

Not sure how this started... Was it because I used to go to the 100 Club ?

I can promise you that we only went there because it was a camp laugh and a good night out. Northern Soul is deeply camp and very enjoyable.

It certainly has a culture behind it but that was nothing to us, we were out on the town, not going to church.

Best -