Im pretty sure my suit trousers are 9 on my BB, 11.5 at the knee I think.

But I think if I get the point you maybe trying to make, your missing a detail. Yes some stapress go narrower. But when trousers are pressed they look narrower from the front even when tapered by two inches from knee to hem they give an impression of being narrower than they actually are, but give a much nice fuller look from the side.

A jean or five pocket needs to be tapered to give the impression of being narrower as most are not pressed. This is why I think it is better to go for at least just under 8 on my 5ps.

I remember Jim saying about this, and although I don't know for sure I heard from a source that brooks on their suits (read as being not chino) did increase the width of the leg but not the proportion of the taper. If that is the case the idea of a leg having a 11.5 hem is an odd one, I get the impression if you looked at my brooks suit trousers you might think them straight leg because of the large knee size equally a healthy 9/9.5 hem. I never got to that point when I spoke about it before.

^ For a Brooks suit with a more aggressive taper 'out of the shop' you have to jump to the wash'n'wear suits of the 60's, but there it's the knee measurement thats the big difference (about 20" circumference) and not the hem  (that's a smidge under 18" circumference), the measurements are from my 42S suit which I believe is unaltered.

Funny - lately I've been gravitating towards wider legs - think Woody Allen circa 1977. Yesterday I got a pair of Berle Nantucket reds with cuffs and I love the wider leg. As a matter of fact, my only trousers with slim legs are the Bedfords cords and Levi's 1967. For me a tapper works best on very casual pants. Dress pants I like them with only the slightest tapered.

There seems to be a trend in Miami and NY for extra slim dress trousers aka "nut huggers" and it's been putting me off most tapered pants. There should be a law that men over 30 shouldn't wear anything tight.

You shouldve been around to advise the beach boys tailor!

The Beach Boys?

Bop - you speak a lot of sense with regard to cuff opening, knee  - ironed with crease and a gentle iron*, and no ironing.

The general issue is some sort of "golden ratio" which includes bum, thighs and knee as well. The golden ratio also need to take into account of what above the waist looks like too. If you have a prominent sticky out bum, thick thighs and chunky legs then you need to pay attention to how the trouser leg flows from the bum to ankle/shoe.

I have an arse as flat as a shitcarters hat and thighs like chickens insteps. I get nearly all my trousers taken in at bum/crotch - not waists - and thigh. Dress trousers I work on around 10" at knee and between 8.5" and 9" at shoe. Less than 8.5" can look too try hard to be on fashion and over 9" can look not a "straight" leg. I like the leg to look kind of straight from bum to shoe - NB: - not be straight but look straight. Also note I'm not talking ivy here, at least not a purist line, I'm just talking clothes. I think formby in another place has spoken of people he knows still preferring a slight "boot cut" on suits to get that straight look. I can see that.

* I often gentle iron chinos and jeans and ocbds with just a  bit of a press to get out crazy wrinkles but not to iron a crease or go all hard.