Are they New England shirts then?

Wow, your under-cutting both your retailers, smooth move.

Is anyone close enough to John Simons to suggest he buys the cloth (or gets the guy who produces his madras shirts in India to buy it) and knock out a batch of these in exactly the same style and fit as those ones.

Those madras shirts he's been doing for the last year (while not bleeding madras) are great in terms of construction quality fit (and price) and seem popular (I've got a couple and they get the thumbs up on here from a few people)

Even if it was double  what they are (£49) - that would be a £100 for one of those which would be in the right ball park I think for most people considering the cloth takes a bit more work to produce.

That right there is why I won't be buying these "bleeding" shirts (if they ever get made).
The JS shirts are very very good and are £49 normally but drop to £39 in the sales.

These are at least $125 plus shipping (so approx £90) and I just can't see them being twice as good or worth twice as much to me regardless of the process.

So, for that reason, I'm out.

The thing is I can appreciate what that fabric is...but the argument for a madras shirt being a beater shirt, and when you look at shirts of 175 dollars...even 125 dollars to some degree are dress shirt prices...in an overtly casual world with the price of clothing being severely distorted by insane profit margins..we have this mad notion of the prices on casual clothing, Im not sure if these prices are acceptable for everyone..saying that if there is people that will spend then that completely negates my point.

Last edited by Bop (2015-11-20 04:33:59)

If retailers in the UK are operating on the same 2.5x mark up as those in the US are and the CMT cost is the same in the UK they it the US, that would put a John Simons Loominous "Bleeding" Madras shirt at $180 at retail.

I may be able do to a 100% custom made shirt - each of you guys could specify the exact details you wanted - from a shirtmaker in Chennai, India who can duplicate a 1950s -196Os BBs to the exact detail and perhaps even do it to where I can sell it for less than $125.

I have my guy there in Chennai who can supervise the process and handle customer relations.

http://www.thehindu.com/2001/08/02/stories/13020661.htm

Last edited by aucociscokid2 (2015-11-20 11:14:20)

It's not the cost of the manufacturing, it's the cost of the fabric. If JS were manufacturing the shirts in India, he'd have to retail it at at least $100. I haven't included the Indian taxes, UK duties, and cost of getting the finished shirts into the UK.

Good point, Yuca. At some point you gotta crap, or get off the pot.

I also take back my idea about the Indian tailor.

The entire entire purpose of this venture is to create an authentic 1960s bleeding madras shirt, which was made in the USA.

So made in the USA it is.

Right now, the offering on Styleforum is for an alpha-sized trim cut NES shirt w/a BB collar.

If - between what's left of today (Fri.) in the UK and tomorrow (Sat., 21st) -FNB 10 members will commit to a classic cut one, I'll add that to the offering. The classic cut provides more sizing options.

Here's the long and short of it: The makers who can afford the material, make a shirt not 100% to the liking of FNB members. The makers who make a shirt 100% to your liking can't afford the material.

Yet, David Wood sold out in a day of NES alpha sized shirts at $175 and since the price was reduced on Styleforum, orders are being received there. And No! I'm not undercutting my retailers. They're adding the cost of their financing the purchase of the fabric to their cost and I'm discounting the price for Styleforumers providing it.

Last edited by aucociscokid2 (2015-11-20 13:43:02)

It requires 6 hours for a weaver to produce enough material for a shirt. Even a less than $1/hr. that adds up. Not including the price of dyes (and paying the dyer); the cost of the cotton; the cost of getting everything from Chennai to the dyers/weaver's village 200 km. distant and back to Chennai again; Indian taxes, etc. It is what it is.

I'm doing the BB collar.

You want a classic cut shirt. Tell me and I'll add it to the offering. If not, as you say, there are no customers here, so let's stop wasting each others time. OK?

BTW: I've bought shirts from JS and they're crap. I threw them away.

As a matter of fact, when I was trying to re-create a 1960s chino - which I did - I called him up at one point to ask him details as to the fabric and construction figuring he'd remember. He said: "Fabric? Who knew anything about fabric." Twice a year he went to NYC, to a building on Sixth Ave. in the 50s (a few blocks down from where I was practicing law at the time), ushered into a floor-space space stacked with chinos and bought the cheapest ones he could find and promoted the hell out of them in London.

I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood in New Jersey. Yet, my mother always took my sister and I shopping on Fifth Ave. in New York City to the best stores - like the appropriately named Best & Co. (the current site of Olympic Tower, next to St. Patrick's Cathedral) - for Easter, back-to-school, etc. Her reasoning was it better to have a few top quality things, than a lot of crap. What can tell you?

I'm waiting for Bob Kidder/NES shirt to send me a graphic representation of it. He doesn't work Thurs. an Fri. You're just going to have to be patient.

Last edited by aucociscokid2 (2015-11-20 14:07:20)

I'm not sitting on any cloth. I made a sale on Styleforum in the time it required to write this email. Look! + Again (the millionth time), David Wood Clothiers sold out instantly in August and has ordered more. You're right. It's not cost effective for a manufacturer to buy the cloth from me. It is, however, cost effective for the manufacturer to do it on a CMT (cut/make/trim) basis, which is what David Wood, among others, are doing. (Thus far, Mercer doesn't want to do them on that basis. Mercer - BTW - does not really make shirts.)

J. Simon's madras is 2/40, powerloomed, VAT dyed (which means its environmentally hazardous and carcinogenic). non-bleeding fabric which may not even be produced in Chennai (and thus under Indian and US law can't even be called "madras") which can be picked up all over the Far East for $2/yard.

His success can be attributable to the fact that he's a wide-boy, as you once called me.

They sell out quickly. I'll have no cloth and YOU'LL have NO shirt!

Last edited by aucociscokid2 (2015-11-20 14:46:21)

Oh course JS is a wide boy, he's from the East End - he's a salesman.

John's got some class at least,  unlike our new friend. And a character,  who has been around for a long time and made a true impact.  They say he named the Harrington, who cares if he didn't? The man can talk,  the man has done something with his life.

Who are you but a name dropper and a bullshiter,  who has been stupid enough to let most of us wind you up for ten pages, plus? And I couldn't give a flying fuck about your business career, before you bring that up.