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#1 2016-12-02 15:58:04

Talcottlevy
New member
Posts: 4

New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

http://www.olddogbooks.net/shop/olddogbooks/weekend-dancer/

Check it out!

 

#2 2016-12-02 16:24:44

Oliver
Member
From: San Francisco
Posts: 6321

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

Oh great, it's a mod Judy Blume. Does he dance his way into the heart of the girl next door?? I can't wait to find out!

 

#3 2016-12-02 22:40:36

Talcottlevy
New member
Posts: 4

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

That is actually very funny, Oliver. I guess I should have said it is pop-pulp teen fiction. But you dont have to be a teenager to read it if you like button-downs and loafers!

 

#4 2016-12-03 05:13:17

An Unseen Scene
Member
From: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 1175

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

This isn't a comment on the book but I was around Soho as a Mod in 1984 and none of the Mods looked like the 'Art Gallery' label chap in the photos here who has a more authentic sixties look than was around at the time.   

The retro-authentic look hadn't yet been created so there was a real mish-mash of looks from Jam inspired pop-Carnabyism to Style Council's Euro-American, those starting to stray into psychedelia (particularly the Milton Keynes/Northampton Psychodots set) and towards acid-jazz/funk had looser interpretations.  '84 I tried to look like Keith Moon, by '85 it was like someone from The Factory by '86 (which as a simple look also worked well for moonlighting on more electronic, up to date dance music of the time). I'd transitioned from Mod to both niter Northern Soul and niter early House music in parallel.  Quite incredibly through Facebook I found that 60% of my friends from the time are still together as Mods and running events very happily.   Good for them.

Last edited by An Unseen Scene (2016-12-03 05:16:34)

 

#5 2016-12-03 06:18:06

Talcottlevy
New member
Posts: 4

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

Interesting. I guess everyone has different experiences. I certainly generalise mine in the book! My little cohort were definitely wearing these Gabbici-type 60s tops in 1984.  Mick Ferante had discovered a shop in the East End which had 100's of unopened packets of them. The Camden Stylists and South London Gents mostly wore them. If you look at the photos that Paul Hallam and others have posted on Facebook of Sneakers and other clubs at that time you will see quite a different range of styles being worn. We didnt really get into the more Style Council end of the look until a year or two later. That said, in the book I have made the narrator a bit ahead of the game. He has discovered J.Simions and is starting to get into Ivy, although still a mod. TL

 

#6 2016-12-03 06:24:13

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4114

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

'The power and the glory' by Gary Bushell?

A Mexican whisky priest who finds redemption through Oi music?


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#7 2016-12-03 06:29:13

An Unseen Scene
Member
From: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 1175

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

Yes there was never really 'one' Mod scene, lots of different ones overlapping. I remember buying a purple polka dot button down shirt on Carnaby St in a trip and I'd already got a short light mac, which I would wear with grey trousers, blue blazer and fringed loafers.  By '86 many of us were all moving on and a next generation wasn't coming up behind us.

ps I knew nobody at all who knew about John Simons, or the origins of Harrington Jackets, or the original makes for loafers etc.  There were just no sources whatsoever of style knowledge or writing.  Around London, yes a bit.  But I think we overlay today back to then as though it was the same.  John Simons had I known it would have been intimidating and too expensive at that age.  I wish I had known it and maybe those from the original revival did know by then.    I never heard anyone use the phrase Ivy League in relation to Mod until much later.

Last edited by An Unseen Scene (2016-12-03 06:33:33)

 

#8 2016-12-03 06:33:37

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

The Style Council Weller and Talbot look was already ahead of Mod, as soon as they arrived. Happy days, getting all those style tips from the 12" covers 83-85. And then they had to go and blow it all with the orange album.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#9 2016-12-12 03:57:23

chuck power
Member
From: Looking for Lewis and Clark
Posts: 805

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

Being a confirmed Wellerhead at the time, I have to agree with Hep .... TSC 85 was probably the high point and peaked around the time of 'Our favourite shop' .... Sartorially it all went a bit downhill after that (for me at least). Suspect that it was the blonde highlights that done it ....  sad That said - the Orange album is great - albeit sans sleeve art.


Who do you see? Who do you watch? Whose your leader? Which is your flock?

 

#10 2022-03-26 02:36:15

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

John Simons - The Man Who Didn't Necessarily Dress The Mods.  Shhh...  don't tell anyone at the BBC, 'Guardian' or 'Independent', will you? 
Some of these threads are rib-tickling.

 

#11 2022-03-26 04:11:16

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 658

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

AUS’s comments there are bang on.

He’s referring to 1984. I was one of the very few following him along only a couple of years later. But did mix a lot with older lads that had been around a long while.

There was a lot of talk about clothes and where to buy or get them made. And a lot of newsletters and fanzines doing their best to keep it all together. I’ve still got piles of them in boxes in my garage and I’d wager that if I could be bothered to wade through them I wouldn’t find one mention of Brooks, Baracuta or Bass. Cenci in Convent garden was well known and raided a fair bit. But I’d never heard of JS which must’ve only been round the corner.

We were all in our late teens and early twenties. There’s no way we would have been dropping that sort of money on clothes from shops.

Putting aside the ‘flash in the pan’ types who wore a parka and Fred Perry for a couple of months and moved on, most of them were getting their stuff tailored. You could probably have three shirts made for whatever one cost at Russell St. Which would have been too baggy for their tastes anyway.

I’ve said it loads before, but if you set aside all the talk about subversion, attitude etc. and look at it purely as taste in clothes, save a very few overlaps, I don’t think the two have very much in common at all.

I reckon he dressed more skinheads than mods, but that’s not something The Guardian’s going to run with is it? And The Man who dressed well dressed people isn’t a seller.

 

#12 2022-03-26 04:23:25

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

The entire 'sub-culture' thing has been a problem from beginning to end.  I know even my beloved Gibson will disagree but this style is American, American, American, all the way through.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  Of course, if it wasn't American, what were he and his Merseyside chums so worked up about when viewing those old copies of 'Esquire' all those years ago? 
Back in 1979 (or whenever that bloody film showed up at our local ABC and sparked off so much trouble) I had only contempt for 'Mods'.  They were simply not part of my world, which was embracing the USA in a major way: Brooks Brothers, Montgomery Clift, hints and whiffs of jazz and blues.  The 'Mods' listened to pop music. 
Baggy shirts?  This has been touched on elsewhere - the 'Mod' misunderstanding of shirts, tweed jackets ('Nah, yer lapels r' too wide, squire), chinos, sweatshirts, loafers.  TRS knows ALL ABOUT IT.  He was there.

 

#13 2022-03-26 04:30:18

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

Time that classic 'Mod'/'Modernist' thread was revived, pitching the understated individualism of one against the mass movement of the other.  'We will fight them on the beaches...'  Quite possibly not what Winston had in mind.

 

#14 2022-03-26 04:33:57

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

Having said the above, much that goes on in life is tentative.  I'd heard of Brooks Brothers before I knew the words 'Ivy League'.  'Preppie' I was made aware of by a friend of my father, who had emigrated to the United States and was in and out of NYC a fair amount.  It was not meant as a compliment.

 

#15 2022-03-26 05:12:28

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2177

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

I can't remember when I first heard the term Ivy. I always used the term American. As in American brogues, American loafers, American shirt. Knitwear was always made in Scotland/England/Ireland although I did have a made in USA cardigan which I was very proud of. We would pay more for the qudos of owning something made in USA.

Last edited by RobbieB (2022-03-26 05:15:07)


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#16 2022-03-26 05:52:57

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 658

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

I don’t think talk of sub culture does any good really.

‘Ivy’ isn’t one. Not over here as far as I can see. It’s much more subtle than any sub culture could ever be. Attempting to fully intertwine it with mod/suede/rockabilly or whatever is a bit naive. JS could stand alone perfectly well enough without the associations. And any sub cult would have managed just as well without his services.

It’s interesting to read the points above Re The Style Council. They really did a lot to indicate that life could be about more than bowling shoes and sulking around on beaches. And they did encourage the listener to go out and find it for themselves. Weller wore some pretty good gear in their early years I always thought. And they mixed up the sounds really well. Constantly switching and mixing it up made you really alert to where their influences were coming from.

 

#17 2022-03-26 07:40:12

Tworussellstreet
Member
Posts: 599

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

The mod 'revival' of 79 onwards was  just a chronic misreading of what had happened 15-20 years earlier. Much happened culturally between, say, 1965 and 1979, so you end up with an entirely new thing, completely unrelated to the earlier generation. The revival was fancy dress, make-believe and home spun and it continued to evolve through the 80s/90s. That it wasn't of much significance can be borne out by the lack of any outstanding individuals of long-standing worth to emerge. Really I think there is only Paul Weller. The chroniclers of later mod are rather lumpen third-rate writers and thinkers, we all know the names, and I'd include myself amongst them. That no great music came from anything 'mod revival' says it all. The original period has its roots in a whole different world of experiences and influences. It went mass market, as often happens, and also became lumpen and predictable, but I've met many from that time, most of whom completely reject the term mod (or even the slightly absurd 'modernist'), all working class guys, mainly from London, who have an original, decidedly non-standard take on many subjects, usually the more superficial ones of clothes, music and lifestyle, but interesting nonetheless.

 

#18 2022-03-26 10:10:36

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 785

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

The Mod revival coincided with the onset of my teenage years. I can only talk from a personal perspective based on the people I met who were slightly older than me.

I think the key thing that's overlooked was that the early Mod revival was more rooted in Punk /New Wave than is now recognised. I never met anyone who was originally interested  in recreating the Sixties Mod or the late fifties Modernists. You must remember that in a pre-internet age trying to get credible information, imagery and clothing was really difficult and everything involved a load of painstaking hunting out.

By '78 Punk had run it's course. A lot of the original energy had burnt itself out pretty quickly. The smarter older kids took refuge in the big cities at Bowie nights. The younger kids liked the energy of Punk and there were still plenty of back rooms in pubs to catch live music in. Smarter looking groups emerged who saw the antithesis of modern being the long haired rock and prog groups and their fans who were more rooted in the late Sixties/early Seventies. Just look at Pete Townsend as an example.

Little pockets of like minded souls appeared up and down the country and would follow groups that had a similar aesthetic.

Anything slim fitting and narrow that looked different from the flares, tank tops and big collared shirts was picked up. Typically from charity shops  or finding some back street  shop that was selling deadstock. Nobody really called themselves Mod. Things like wrap around glasses, skinny ties, polo necks and chelsea boots were all popular. The cover of Blondie Parallel lines is a good point of reference for '78.

By 79 a lot of the kids were now referring to themselves as Mods. The look was slightly bizarre as most were still wearing their hair quite long but with retro clothing. The music was still rooted in new wave rather than oldies. New bands claiming to be Mods were emerging every week it seamed. Inspired by the ethos of Punk, most were rubbish. Some got deals and would record a few singles before breaking up or going back to obscurity.

A good example of this evolution is a band called New Hearts who recorded Teenage Anthem in '78.A classic bit of new wave. They changed their name to Secret Affair and toured with The Jam very early in their career. There is also a compilation called Odd Bods Mods and Sods from around this time

Quadraphenia and the Barnes book were really interesting reference points but like all things it evolves. By 1980 the mod revival was a pre-packaged for kids in market stall parkers and that awful place in Carnaby Street selling black satin ties with band logos on it.

 

#19 2022-03-26 13:09:21

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

Judging by recent shots on social media, JS the man who eventually dressed the mods would be more accurate.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#20 2022-03-26 13:19:05

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

^ Excellent.

 

#21 2022-03-26 14:46:09

DuluthandBackAgain
Member
Posts: 125

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

I have no jewish upbringing and to my knowledge am not jewish. But when we emptied my maternal grandparents house before selling it we found a case of kosher wine. And sometimes when I visit my grandfathers grave there are small stones on the gravestone. Hmm .... HMMMMMMMM!!!!


Is that a popped collar or are you just happy to see me?

 

#22 2022-03-26 16:48:56

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 785

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

I had a Summer job in '79 working in fancy goods shop in Brixham.

I was listening  to a load of soul and funk played in the shop. I remember Earth Wind and Fire September, The Jones Girls and Shalamar Take that to the bank were on heavy rotation.It was all about baggy jeans, POD shoes and canvas belts with square buckles. We called them utility belts

Two guys came into the shop wearing really pointed shoes, dayglo socks, tight trousers and short spikey haircuts. I had never seen anything like them before. The thing I vividly remember was one of the guys had a pin badge with the word MODS on it with the pop art arrow.

I didn't know what "MODS" was and didn't want to look like a nebbish so kept quite .

 

#23 2022-03-27 00:45:54

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: New Novel with Ivy/Mod clothing, Jewish identity and John Simons!

^ They sound more like Duluth's elves than Mods.

 
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