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#1 2017-10-29 20:09:23

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Club collar?

Anyone know a good traditional fit club collar shirt? Solid collar preferable, I'm not Gordon Gekko...

J. Press only offers theirs in blue with white collar, and in slim fit to boot... Nothing at Brooks...


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#2 2017-11-01 11:56:01

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: Club collar?

I buy mine from Brooks custom fit.  They cost about the same as the non-non-iron oxford cloth button downs, and in the past when I have ordered 3 there has been a discount. I have plain white ones and also some contrast collars (pink with white collar--that proper, classic Brooks darker pink and not the lighter one they seem to be using on the non-irons), blue university stripe with white collar).  I get the forward point tennis collars I want from them, too.  I'm at the point now where I know what I want, so I just go to someone who is willing to do it.

Unless one company or the other just happens to release one that year, I think Brooks custom is your best option.  EDIT:  I get mine in the Madison fit, which is pretty traditional although not balloon-y.


As for Gekko, he wore spreads, on the wider end of the Ainsley, in my recollection, not club collars.  But, I always felt his shirts and suspenders were the least objectionable thing about him.  So long as you don't also sport the "Gekko" haircut and imitate the character's movie lines, I think you can avoid any undue comparison if you do go the contrast collar route.

Last edited by Coolidge (2017-11-01 11:58:57)

 

#3 2017-11-01 12:06:14

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

Coolidge wrote:

I buy mine from Brooks custom fit.  They cost about the same as the non-non-iron oxford cloth button downs, and in the past when I have ordered 3 there has been a discount. I have plain white ones and also some contrast collars (pink with white collar--that proper, classic Brooks darker pink and not the lighter one they seem to be using on the non-irons), blue university stripe with white collar).  I get the forward point tennis collars I want from them, too.  I'm at the point now where I know what I want, so I just go to someone who is willing to do it.

Unless one company or the other just happens to release one that year, I think Brooks custom is your best option.  EDIT:  I get mine in the Madison fit, which is pretty traditional although not balloon-y.


As for Gekko, he wore spreads, on the wider end of the Ainsley, in my recollection, not club collars.  But, I always felt his shirts and suspenders were the least objectionable thing about him.  So long as you don't also sport the "Gekko" haircut and imitate the character's movie lines, I think you can avoid any undue comparison if you do go the contrast collar route.

Coolidge, great info, thanks a ton. Brooks custom hadn't even occurred to me, I will definitely go this route when I'm ready to pull the trigger on a club collar... Thanks for the fit advice as well...

Haha, I have nothing against the contrast collar per se, I just really like the look of a solid-color club collar, which is less often seen these days. But if I was going to do the contrast collar, I'd go for a club collar for it...


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#4 2017-11-01 12:16:32

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: Club collar?

You're welcome. 

The one I had on in "What are you wearing" two weeks back is one of the Brooks custom ones.  That one is in Oxford cloth but I have also had them in broadcloth.

It was about a 3 week turnaround for me on the order, maybe a little under.  Once you do choose the fabric, your color options may be limited somewhat (certain things aren't available in oxford cloth--for example, I wanted a pink university stripe with a contrast white club collar, no dice--the pink is fine but I wanted a little bit more restrained).  Each shirt comes in the classic blue and gold box of yore.

 

#5 2017-11-01 12:25:37

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

Coolidge wrote:

You're welcome. 

The one I had on in "What are you wearing" two weeks back is one of the Brooks custom ones.  That one is in Oxford cloth but I have also had them in broadcloth.

It was about a 3 week turnaround for me on the order, maybe a little under.  Once you do choose the fabric, your color options may be limited somewhat (certain things aren't available in oxford cloth--for example, I wanted a pink university stripe with a contrast white club collar, no dice--the pink is fine but I wanted a little bit more restrained).  Each shirt comes in the classic blue and gold box of yore.

Beautiful, great news. I've been an OCBD guy for a long time, but I'm looking to add some point collars and club collars to the mix... You know, for business. The club collar you were wearing looked great, I don't remember if I said anything about it at the time but I thought it worked very well, it's an under-utilized collar these days. Maybe because of the costume-y Roger Sterling or Nucky Thompson associations (although Roger Sterling killed it in those early Mad Men seasons, not Ivy but crushing it)... But for me Sinatra will always be king of the club collar...

Hard to see, but this is a club collar with a three-piece suit, a la your ILSFT look:

https://thegratitudelife.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/dean-martin-frank-sinatra-airport.jpg

Close-up:

http://18674-presscdn.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Frank-Sinatra-2-%C2%A9-Herman-Leonard-Photography-LLC.jpg

It just looks so good with the collar pin, really sets off a tie knot to advantage...


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#6 2017-11-01 12:29:02

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

Also, check out the linings on Dean and Frank's suits. Awesome.


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#7 2017-11-01 12:32:09

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: Club collar?

Sinatra had it down.  Also wore on the cover of the 1956 Capitol LP "A Swingin' Affair!"

Brooks now (they did not with a previous order about 8-9 years ago) supplies "club"-specific shortened collar stays for the shirts when they send them to you.  I find these work well (I am wearing them, unseen obviously, in that picture), but it doesn't preclude using the collar bar (I still use the slide on kind).  It is a nice alternative if you don't want to wear the bar/pin though.

 

#8 2017-11-01 14:58:33

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11014

Re: Club collar?

had a couple of club collars from Japes back in the day, blue oxford and white oxford cloths, flap pockets, wore them out to frayedness in the '80s, by then they were no longer available  .....

an old-fashioned look to be sure ... archaic, even ......

nice that Brooks can make them for you guys, reassuring .....

Sinatra looks alright in his club collar

but nobody rocked the club-collar look like Alfalfa:

http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/posts/657/53/53657/1350326054-0.jpg

check it out, he's got the bowtie, club collar, and suspenders (not going to call them "braces," don't worry), Alfalfa was fully proto-Ivy, like F. Scott Fitzgerald


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#9 2017-11-01 16:31:05

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

stanshall wrote:

had a couple of club collars from Japes back in the day, blue oxford and white oxford cloths, flap pockets, wore them out to frayedness in the '80s, by then they were no longer available  .....

an old-fashioned look to be sure ... archaic, even ......

nice that Brooks can make them for you guys, reassuring .....

Sinatra looks alright in his club collar

but nobody rocked the club-collar look like Alfalfa:

http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/pos … 6054-0.jpg

check it out, he's got the bowtie, club collar, and suspenders (not going to call them "braces," don't worry), Alfalfa was fully proto-Ivy, like F. Scott Fitzgerald

Bullshit. He's clearly dressed by Thom Browne.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjE5ODI1MjA5MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODE2ODYwNA@@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,1230,1000_AL_.jpg


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#10 2017-11-01 16:37:30

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: Club collar?

I do see club collars out and about in New York.  Not everywhere or widespread but I've seen adult businessmen wearing them.  Most noticeable on some more unusual colors (last week I saw a guy with a lavender shirt with club collar, he also had a bit of an overwrought pocket square going, in my view).

I think it still works. Maybe more without the pin/bar than with. It's less Roger Sterling/Mad Men extra if you dispense with super skinny ties and a fedora. Which is not too hard to do if you have a job in Midtown and don't want to be made fun of.

Honestly it's the tennis/point collar I've seen the least of around here...the Ainsley and the wide spread are very in, and that narrow forward point not so much. I almost never see them and Brooks had very few last time I was in to 346 in September.  It's odd because, really, to whatever extent you believe the club collar is distinctive or anachronistic, the tennis/forward point should be considered far less so.

 

#11 2017-11-01 17:05:17

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

Coolidge wrote:

I do see club collars out and about in New York.  Not everywhere or widespread but I've seen adult businessmen wearing them.  Most noticeable on some more unusual colors (last week I saw a guy with a lavender shirt with club collar, he also had a bit of an overwrought pocket square going, in my view).

I think it still works. Maybe more without the pin/bar than with. It's less Roger Sterling/Mad Men extra if you dispense with super skinny ties and a fedora. Which is not too hard to do if you have a job in Midtown and don't want to be made fun of.

Honestly it's the tennis/point collar I've seen the least of around here...the Ainsley and the wide spread are very in, and that narrow forward point not so much. I almost never see them and Brooks had very few last time I was in to 346 in September.  It's odd because, really, to whatever extent you believe the club collar is distinctive or anachronistic, the tennis/forward point should be considered far less so.

If you (general you) wear a fedora, you're wrong. I don't give a shit if your whole look is the 1955 look, the fedora stopped being cool when Kennedy stopped wearing one, and after that Sinatra was the last Honorary Fedora-Wearer. And even he stopped after the 1960s... Now that it's acceptable to be bald no guy has an excuse for wearing a hat.

BUT - apart from hats Roger Sterling crushed it and I think that Joe Business would look a lot better in his suits than he would copying Don Draper's style, which after all was the beginning of the thoughtless work uniform you're describing with the spread collars... Sterling didn't do the "skinny ties" look until they really started pushing the drugs and sexual revolution aspect, at the beginning he was all three-piece suits and double-breasted stuff. A good three-piece suit is very hard to find walking around NYC these days, I saw one on the subway the other day worn by a very old gentleman and it looked great.

I think this still looks great.
https://hips.hearstapps.com/esq.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/06/54d3edb423ea6_-_esq-02-sterling-club-collar-mad-men-2014-xln.jpg

You can see the difference between Don, who would probably be buying off-the-rack, and Roger, who was probably getting his suits made:
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2013/05/06/06-mad-men2.w750.h560.2x.jpg

Too bad about the shoes (boots?) though. And no cuffs on the trousers, which I think a guy like Roger would have been rocking.

Interesting point about the point collars (ha!), I'll have to look out for that. I do think club collars have had a resurgence as a trendy item, that's one reason why J. Press only sells theirs in slim fit right now. And they've always been a thing for the Beau Brummel look, like Mr. Lavender Shirt.

The state of the suit in America is atrocious. They're either ridiculously small and tight, with really short jackets, or they're baggy and shapeless. We all love swelled edges and 3/2 roll and beautiful OCBDs and repp ties and penny loafers here on TI, but I'd be happy if the majority of suits you saw were the fit Frank, JFK or (admittedly fictional person) Roger Sterling wore. Good rise, 2 or 3 piece, with repp or foulard ties, point or club collar shirts, and good, rounded toe shoes. Right now, it's this mishmash of "Mad Men" inspired stuff (which mainly means skinny dark ties) and European style (sharp shoulders, long pointy shoes, and tight fits).

I got really off topic here, sorry...


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#12 2017-11-01 17:22:51

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11014

Re: Club collar?

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

stanshall wrote:

had a couple of club collars from Japes back in the day, blue oxford and white oxford cloths, flap pockets, wore them out to frayedness in the '80s, by then they were no longer available  .....

an old-fashioned look to be sure ... archaic, even ......

nice that Brooks can make them for you guys, reassuring .....

Sinatra looks alright in his club collar

but nobody rocked the club-collar look like Alfalfa:

http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/pos … 6054-0.jpg

check it out, he's got the bowtie, club collar, and suspenders (not going to call them "braces," don't worry), Alfalfa was fully proto-Ivy, like F. Scott Fitzgerald

Bullshit. He's clearly dressed by Thom Browne.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com … 00_AL_.jpg

I can't tell if Buster Brown wore club collars because his collar is hidden by his oversized bowtie .....

you'll be psyched to know that Carl Jung wore the club collar .....


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#13 2017-11-02 08:47:43

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: Club collar?

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

If you (general you) wear a fedora, you're wrong. I don't give a shit if your whole look is the 1955 look, the fedora stopped being cool when Kennedy stopped wearing one, and after that Sinatra was the last Honorary Fedora-Wearer. And even he stopped after the 1960s... Now that it's acceptable to be bald no guy has an excuse for wearing a hat.

BUT - apart from hats Roger Sterling crushed it and I think that Joe Business would look a lot better in his suits than he would copying Don Draper's style, which after all was the beginning of the thoughtless work uniform you're describing with the spread collars... Sterling didn't do the "skinny ties" look until they really started pushing the drugs and sexual revolution aspect, at the beginning he was all three-piece suits and double-breasted stuff. A good three-piece suit is very hard to find walking around NYC these days, I saw one on the subway the other day worn by a very old gentleman and it looked great.

I think this still looks great.
https://hips.hearstapps.com/esq.h-cdn.c … 14-xln.jpg

You can see the difference between Don, who would probably be buying off-the-rack, and Roger, who was probably getting his suits made:
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vultu … 560.2x.jpg

Too bad about the shoes (boots?) though. And no cuffs on the trousers, which I think a guy like Roger would have been rocking.

Interesting point about the point collars (ha!), I'll have to look out for that. I do think club collars have had a resurgence as a trendy item, that's one reason why J. Press only sells theirs in slim fit right now. And they've always been a thing for the Beau Brummel look, like Mr. Lavender Shirt.

The state of the suit in America is atrocious. They're either ridiculously small and tight, with really short jackets, or they're baggy and shapeless. We all love swelled edges and 3/2 roll and beautiful OCBDs and repp ties and penny loafers here on TI, but I'd be happy if the majority of suits you saw were the fit Frank, JFK or (admittedly fictional person) Roger Sterling wore. Good rise, 2 or 3 piece, with repp or foulard ties, point or club collar shirts, and good, rounded toe shoes. Right now, it's this mishmash of "Mad Men" inspired stuff (which mainly means skinny dark ties) and European style (sharp shoulders, long pointy shoes, and tight fits).

I got really off topic here, sorry...

Not that off topic. 

Roger: I hadn't meant to say the Roger look doesn't work at all, just not with skinny tie and hat and the tie bar and the club collar all at once. The lack of cuffs--probably goes hand in hand with the fact that NYC stores were and are a bit more cosmopolitan and Roger's tastes were, too. In theory I suppose it would make them more formal. One thing of course to keep in mind is that John Slattery, and most other actors we see in suits, are at least above average if not very good looking.  Part of the problem with "other" people is that many of them aren't especially so and it can't all be cured even with good tailoring or tasteful choices.

Digression: Honestly, the fedora was on its way out before Kennedy from what I've read and observed.  If you have a look at the movies of the immediately pre-Kennedy day, late 50s Hitchcock stuff for example, it's the square characters who wear the fedora the most.  Detectives, Soviet villains, Jimmy Stewart (playing a detective) tailing Kim Novak, old men played by Leo Carroll. You don't see Cary Grant or Gregory Peck--even in most of "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" in one. Or anyone under 40.  Plenty of short-brim Panamas come out in the summer, but fedoras are done and I think on the way out since sometime around the beginning of Eisenhower's second term.

Suits and three piece suits: Overall yes, there's a lot of real shite out there and we as a gender can do better in the suit department.   I differ from your experience on the three piece suits, I have seen a decent number here in midtown.  Probably one a day and definitely several every week. Also, lots of pocket squares.  But, this--more now than the Financial District--is the area where there is probably the greatest concentration of nice/well-tailored suits being worn in NYC on any given day (Roughly Broadway to Lexington West to East between 57th and 40th North to South, let's say).

Stray observation: What I have noticed here is a dearth of grey suits. I don't mean there are none, but blue seems overwhelmingly popular.  I just looked out my window down to Sixth Avenue and there are about 10 people who appear to be wearing suits.  8 or 9 of them are blue or at least extremely dark grey.

 

#14 2017-11-02 11:22:59

Tommy
Member
Posts: 1585

Re: Club collar?

I, probably like most on here, found the Mad Men Wardrobe department really frustrating. It seemed to be a mixture of good vintage and modern suits no doubt recommended by 'experts' at Brooks Brothers (am I right in remembering they supplied some of the suits)?

Don and roger, would of arguably been too old to be wearing a late 50s/ early 60s Ivy Look, but there were several supposed Ivy Leaguers, all wearing an awful mish mash and tiny collars on the rare button downs they did wear.

Don is wearing cuffs above and often was. He also wore some (no doubt current) split toes in addition to regular cap toes. Period photos show his 'uniform' is not that far off and obviously part of this is to show how he gets sartorially left behind as styles 'evolved' in the 1960s. Roger wears a lot of great 1960s 3 Pieces, with some darted and waisted crap thrown in. He also seems to continuously wearing the same shoes. He's supposed to be a millionaire before the series even starts? He's vain, he would have had maybe nearly as many shoes as suits surely!

In terms of modern wear of the Ivy Look, I have 2 fairly neutral suits. One is slimmer lapled and usually worn with slim ties, the other a classic width and usually worn with the 3-3.5" Ties. Both are just about subtle enough I can get away without people picking up they are vintage (unlike a previous suit I had which was very obviously a vintage piece.

I've just realised that looking at Roger's 3 Piece in the collar bar/ lunch photo he might actually be wearing the same J-Press Grey Flannel that I own?

 

#15 2017-11-02 11:34:09

Tommy
Member
Posts: 1585

Re: Club collar?

Sorry if Berkley is worried about going off topic... I've started to drive someway towards the next town...

I've gotta say this topic has inspired me to look further into getting a club collar, maybe a pinned through one. I've already got a Spearpoint, which is usually which is usually worn with a clip on tie bar.

 

#16 2017-11-02 11:36:31

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

Tommy wrote:

Don and roger, would of arguably been too old to be wearing a late 50s/ early 60s Ivy Look, but there were several supposed Ivy Leaguers, all wearing an awful mish mash and tiny collars on the rare button downs they did wear.

There were characters who went to Ivy League schools, but only Bob Benson wore actual Ivy League style that I remember, with the kind of suits advertised in Playboy around that time, repp ties, and button-down shirts. I felt like they did a pretty fair job with him.

http://img.wennermedia.com/760-width/rs-17636-benson-624-1368197497.jpg

Brooks Brothers supplied custom suits for the show per the costume designer's specs. But I know they also did a huge amount of vintage shopping for the female and male characters, I know this scene is one example:

http://blog.apliiq.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/madras.jpg

I remember on the DVD commentary some of the actors and actresses talking about how hard it was to wear costumes that were often very fragile.

Coolidge - yes, I agree about Roger, and about hats - I hadn't really put the death of hats then, but of course you're right. Very much agreed about navy suits too, it's almost all I see, again with those very light brown suits. When you look at JFK or other blue/navy suit wearers, they were usually wearing black or Color 8 shoes, now everyone is wearing almost tan wingtips. Navy and black seem to be the name of the game. Interestingly, when I bought my first suit, I went for gray over navy.


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#17 2017-11-02 12:39:52

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: Club collar?

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

only Bob Benson wore actual Ivy League style that I remember, with the kind of suits advertised in Playboy around that time, repp ties, and button-down shirts. I felt like they did a pretty fair job with him.

[...]

Coolidge - yes, I agree about Roger, and about hats - I hadn't really put the death of hats then, but of course you're right. Very much agreed about navy suits too, it's almost all I see, again with those very light brown suits. When you look at JFK or other blue/navy suit wearers, they were usually wearing black or Color 8 shoes, now everyone is wearing almost tan wingtips. Navy and black seem to be the name of the game. Interestingly, when I bought my first suit, I went for gray over navy.

Agree on Bob Benson; I had forgotten about him.  Early Pete Campbell, too.

I have 12 suits in my winter "rotation" and the score is 8 in some shade of grey (herringbone, tweed, flannel, pinstripe) to 4 blue (flannel, pinstripe).  All the grey definitely stands out on the street.  I prefer cordovan and oxblood colored shoes with all shades of suit though I do wear black captoe oxfords.  The light baby poo colors look ridiculous with blue suits to me.

 

#18 2017-11-02 13:31:02

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11014

Re: Club collar?

Coolidge wrote:

I do see club collars out and about in New York.  Not everywhere or widespread but I've seen adult businessmen wearing them.  Most noticeable on some more unusual colors (last week I saw a guy with a lavender shirt with club collar, he also had a bit of an overwrought pocket square going, in my view).

I think it still works. Maybe more without the pin/bar than with. It's less Roger Sterling/Mad Men extra if you dispense with super skinny ties and a fedora. Which is not too hard to do if you have a job in Midtown and don't want to be made fun of.

Honestly it's the tennis/point collar I've seen the least of around here...the Ainsley and the wide spread are very in, and that narrow forward point not so much. I almost never see them and Brooks had very few last time I was in to 346 in September.  It's odd because, really, to whatever extent you believe the club collar is distinctive or anachronistic, the tennis/forward point should be considered far less so.

Interesting about you not seeing the tennis/point collar shirt around much currently ... I like them and have a couple of unopened, still-boxed J. Press flappers lying around here somewhere ......

going to revisit my tennis collar shirts soon while they're still underrepresented


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#19 2017-11-02 14:36:33

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15951

Re: Club collar?

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

If you (general you) wear a fedora, you're wrong. I don't give a shit if your whole look is the 1955 look, the fedora stopped being cool when Kennedy stopped wearing one, and after that Sinatra was the last Honorary Fedora-Wearer. And even he stopped after the 1960s... Now that it's acceptable to be bald no guy has an excuse for wearing a hat.

Why is this?  I feel like the fedora is a handsome way to top off a great outfit, or tie it together.  Sort of like a tie.  In certain weather conditions it's also quite practical.  And I have two really nice Dobbs - a felt and a Panama - but I just can't bring myself to wear them.  The stigma and anachronism is just too much, even for me, and probably also the fear that I'll be the center of attention in any public setting.  But looking at the pics of Frank, or those in the '30s - '40s thread, the hats just look great to me with the clothes.


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#20 2017-11-02 14:54:10

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15951

Re: Club collar?

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

Anyone know a good traditional fit club collar shirt? Solid collar preferable, I'm not Gordon Gekko...

J. Press only offers theirs in blue with white collar, and in slim fit to boot... Nothing at Brooks...

I don't know anything about this company.  But here's this:

https://propercloth.com/collar-styles/v … lub-collar

Feel confident buying with "historical relevance".


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#21 2017-11-02 15:04:27

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

Worried Man wrote:

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

If you (general you) wear a fedora, you're wrong. I don't give a shit if your whole look is the 1955 look, the fedora stopped being cool when Kennedy stopped wearing one, and after that Sinatra was the last Honorary Fedora-Wearer. And even he stopped after the 1960s... Now that it's acceptable to be bald no guy has an excuse for wearing a hat.

Why is this?  I feel like the fedora is a handsome way to top off a great outfit, or tie it together.  Sort of like a tie.  In certain weather conditions it's also quite practical.  And I have two really nice Dobbs - a felt and a Panama - but I just can't bring myself to wear them.  The stigma and anachronism is just too much, even for me, and probably also the fear that I'll be the center of attention in any public setting.  But looking at the pics of Frank, or those in the '30s - '40s thread, the hats just look great to me with the clothes.

I see these as the problems:

1) Far too many people wear fedoras with shitty outfits. This has given the fedora a bad reputation - it is now a hat worn by people with shitty outfits. I know a guy who wears a fedora, the chair of a large university's English department, and his outfits are shitty. He is what most people think of when they think of fedora-wearers.

2) The last time fedoras were commonly worn with not-shitty outfits was, as Coolidge said, around 1956. There's a great passage in Will Friedwald's book about Sinatra (written in 1997)  - "he stayed in tune with his time or times by being deliberately out of step with it... Sinatra has been completely out of touch with American culture as it evolved from Mitch Miller's era onward." Sinatra was, I'd argue, the last guy who could wear a fedora and not look shitty, into the mid-1960s, and they were anachronistic even by then. Partly because his outsize image (along with Humphrey Bogart's) was the most visible example of them, when he dropped them, they instantly became costume. This has only gotten more true as time has passed and American menswear as it was in the 1950s and 1960s has gotten further and further from everyday reality. So, Bogart and Sinatra, or rather someone dressing up like Bogart and Sinatra, are what all the other people think of when they think of fedora-wearers.

Summary: To most people, wearing a fedora looks either like a lack of fashion sense, or a costume/affectation.


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#22 2017-11-02 15:08:04

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11014

Re: Club collar?

/\  don't forget the Krueger effect.


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#23 2017-11-02 15:09:47

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

Worried Man wrote:

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

Anyone know a good traditional fit club collar shirt? Solid collar preferable, I'm not Gordon Gekko...

J. Press only offers theirs in blue with white collar, and in slim fit to boot... Nothing at Brooks...

I don't know anything about this company.  But here's this:

https://propercloth.com/collar-styles/v … lub-collar

Feel confident buying with "historical relevance".

Interesting, thanks for this. That's... a lot of options. I can't seem to figure out if these tend to be slim fit, traditional, etc? Or is that all under more options...

Edit: Ah, I see. Classic, Slim, or *shudder* Super Slim.

Edit again:

I hadn't seen this site before. I went through all their options to make an oxford cloth blue uni stripe club collar shirt. The biggest limitation I can see is color and pattern - colors go with patterns, so you're getting a blue uni stripe oxford cloth or no uni stripe oxford cloth. The fit options are huge, though. I checked their classic fit measurements against an old LL Bean OCBD, and theirs is actually bigger than the Bean in some places. It's all customizable though, include two piece or one-piece yoke, sleeve pleats, etc. You can have the top button raised or lowered, you can have unfused collars and sleeves... In the end the shirt came out to be $95 including a monogram. They have an "Ivy" button-down collar as well, with "unfused lining" and longer points for roll. I think that this could be worth trying out for a club collar, simply because of the price point and that they do free alterations on the first shirt purchase.


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#24 2017-11-02 15:12:44

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: Rick's Cafe Americain
Posts: 1370

Re: Club collar?

stanshall wrote:

/\  don't forget the Krueger effect.

I think that fits under #1, surely.


Bertie: "What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this?"
Jeeves: "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter."

Blog: https://rehearsingtheblues.blogspot.com/

 

#25 2017-11-02 15:20:51

Tommy
Member
Posts: 1585

Re: Club collar?

Worried Man wrote:

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

If you (general you) wear a fedora, you're wrong. I don't give a shit if your whole look is the 1955 look, the fedora stopped being cool when Kennedy stopped wearing one, and after that Sinatra was the last Honorary Fedora-Wearer. And even he stopped after the 1960s... Now that it's acceptable to be bald no guy has an excuse for wearing a hat.

Why is this?  I feel like the fedora is a handsome way to top off a great outfit, or tie it together.  Sort of like a tie.  In certain weather conditions it's also quite practical.  And I have two really nice Dobbs - a felt and a Panama - but I just can't bring myself to wear them.  The stigma and anachronism is just too much, even for me, and probably also the fear that I'll be the center of attention in any public setting.  But looking at the pics of Frank, or those in the '30s - '40s thread, the hats just look great to me with the clothes.

See I could see you wearing one in a band shot, but only really you and your front woman have quite the right look. Maybe it Leon Bridges asked you to guest on one of his records. I doubt he'd do that though, not because your not a great drummer, but because you'd outdo him in the rise of your pants.

I don't think his image could recover from that.

 

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