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#26 2008-03-12 10:40:43

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

^ I'm not a fan of the blunt toe, I think they should be pointier.

*****

Here is some better looks at the Preacher's gunboats (before and after recrafting service):
http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php? … count=4111


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#27 2008-03-12 11:01:30

Moose Maclennan
Ivy Inspiration
From: Hernando's Hideaway
Posts: 4577

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

That one of your fans in the background Shooey? smile

Seriously cool footwear!
The difference between 'gunboats' and regular brogues, I still don't understand tho'.

 

#28 2008-03-13 11:30:09

flannel
Member
Posts: 155

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Very, very much.

Take a look at these...


http://cgi.ebay.it/Freeman-Shell-Cordov … m153.l1262


'every man needs one of each'
Ipse

 

#29 2008-03-14 12:14:15

yachtie
Member
Posts: 843

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Just ordered these:

http://www.leathersoulhawaii.com/wp-content/uploads/wing3.jpg

Not a gunboat, more like a pocket cruiser.


One conjects that you, sir, are an ascot flaunting, pomaded, proletarian mountebank fomenting discordance amongst this august body. -jamgood

 

#30 2008-03-15 02:07:22

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 12919

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

yachtie wrote:

Just ordered these:

http://www.leathersoulhawaii.com/wp-con … /wing3.jpg

Not a gunboat, more like a pocket cruiser.

Amazing Yachtie.......simply amazing.

l'll post my new pair of suede Trickers gunboats later.


Buff's Bastards......exposing message board inanity and keeping false GODS accountable since 2006!

Cooked food should be made illegal - Dr Jubb (Jubsy)

 

#31 2008-03-15 07:30:06

yachtie
Member
Posts: 843

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Moose Maclennan wrote:

Seriously cool footwear!
The difference between 'gunboats' and regular brogues, I still don't understand tho'.

Here's my definition-

Gunboat: Full brogue blucher wingtip on a round toe last with an extended sole and exposed welt stitching all around the shoe. Lack of sleekness being the defining feature.

Sort of like obscenity, you know it when you see it.

Last edited by yachtie (2008-03-15 07:32:27)


One conjects that you, sir, are an ascot flaunting, pomaded, proletarian mountebank fomenting discordance amongst this august body. -jamgood

 

#32 2008-03-15 07:39:58

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 12919

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

A gunboat is a big bulky double sole shoe with a 360 degree welt. Many double brogues fall into the gunboat catergory, esp certain Alden and Trickers shoos. A gunboat is more about a bulky built shoo, not so much about brogues .

Here is my recent pair of `gunboat' shoos. Trickers `St James collection' does some of the best gunboats. l don't purchase ordinary elegeant Trickers....l only purchase the HUGE gunboats because  `that is what Trickers does best' .

Here's my new pair. Ugly buggers, but something i'll use alot on week-ends for bush walking (hot weather) and stuff. They'll be my shit kicking shoos.  This is my first suede shoo ever.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/Marc_au/Ron1/PIC_0010-3.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/Marc_au/Ron1/PIC_0009-5.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/Marc_au/Ron1/PIC_0012-4.jpg

Last edited by The_Shooman (2008-03-15 08:19:03)


Buff's Bastards......exposing message board inanity and keeping false GODS accountable since 2006!

Cooked food should be made illegal - Dr Jubb (Jubsy)

 

#33 2008-03-15 08:21:21

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

The_Shooman wrote:

A gunboat is a big bulky double sole shoe with a 360 degree welt. Many double brogues fall into the gunboat catergory, esp certain Alden and Trickers shoos. A gunboat is more about a bulky built shoo, not so much about brogues .

That's an interesting interpretation. I'm not sure I agree (I think it needs to be a longwing brogue) but your definition may be more useful in the long run. And with an evolving language, your definition may be the future.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#34 2008-03-15 08:29:10

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 12919

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Tony Ventresca wrote:

your definition may be more useful in the long run. And with an evolving language, your definition may be the future.

Completely!...a definition to be considered for the future. lt needs to be changed!!! l don't accept the traditional definition (double sole brogues)...it's a bullsh*t definition. l probably go against the grain here     ???

Last edited by The_Shooman (2008-03-15 20:08:45)


Buff's Bastards......exposing message board inanity and keeping false GODS accountable since 2006!

Cooked food should be made illegal - Dr Jubb (Jubsy)

 

#35 2008-03-15 23:31:17

yachtie
Member
Posts: 843

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

The_Shooman wrote:

A gunboat is a big bulky double sole shoe with a 360 degree welt. Many double brogues fall into the gunboat catergory, esp certain Alden and Trickers shoos. A gunboat is more about a bulky built shoo, not so much about brogues .

Here is my recent pair of `gunboat' shoos. Trickers `St James collection' does some of the best gunboats. l don't purchase ordinary elegeant Trickers....l only purchase the HUGE gunboats because  `that is what Trickers does best' .

Here's my new pair. Ugly buggers, but something i'll use alot on week-ends for bush walking (hot weather) and stuff. They'll be my shit kicking shoos.  This is my first suede shoo ever.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/ … 0010-3.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/ … 0009-5.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/ … 0012-4.jpg

Boatage! But to be truly gunboats to me, I'll have to go with Tony V. and say it needs some broguing. Those extended soles are the nutz tho! Cool shoes!

Last edited by yachtie (2008-03-15 23:34:30)


One conjects that you, sir, are an ascot flaunting, pomaded, proletarian mountebank fomenting discordance amongst this august body. -jamgood

 

#36 2008-03-16 07:03:37

Horace
Member
Posts: 6196

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Tony Ventresca wrote:

Shooey, there are some Alden long wing brogues posted here on Andyland. My personal taste is the Alden toe is too blunt, as I think it should be more pointed. But impressive shoes.

My next shoo, of this genre, will be the Brooks wingtip, seen in the middle.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#37 2008-03-16 07:31:05

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Wonder who makes these inexpensive lumps of leather?

http://www.shiptonandheneage.co.uk/erol.html#2090X583

Are they Loakes?

http://www.pediwear.com/detail.php?stock_ID=1057

????

Thanks -

 

#38 2008-03-16 10:31:31

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

^ Check also the Herring Shoes website, as they have a lot of various brands. With some good photos for reference.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#39 2008-03-16 12:47:40

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Probably Loakes then I suspect. Thanks for that T.

"The Look" at a quality level reflected in their price. A good way in I think.

Always good to see the style accessible to all.

Pointless to point out that they aren't Bespoke as other forumites elsewhere might do...

Nor are they Cordovan...

Where's the merit in stating the obvious?

 

#40 2008-03-16 23:56:25

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 12919

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Russell_Street wrote:

"The Look" at a quality level reflected in their price. A good way in I think.

Always good to see the style accessible to all.

Well said.


lt is a real pity that we have the shoe snobbery that we do on the boards. l just don't get it. Mr Pollock posted about his amazing collection a few years ago, yet we had some turds complaining that his collection was crap because he didn't have enough high end shoos. Even had Raj putting me down because my Grenson Masterpieces weren't up to Edward Green standards (that coming from someone who started life purchasing Kenneth Cole because he thought they were quality.  Bwahahaha).

Last edited by The_Shooman (2008-03-17 00:23:07)


Buff's Bastards......exposing message board inanity and keeping false GODS accountable since 2006!

Cooked food should be made illegal - Dr Jubb (Jubsy)

 

#41 2008-03-17 09:29:17

yachtie
Member
Posts: 843

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

The_Shooman wrote:

Russell_Street wrote:

"The Look" at a quality level reflected in their price. A good way in I think.

Always good to see the style accessible to all.

Well said.


lt is a real pity that we have the shoe snobbery that we do on the boards. l just don't get it. Mr Pollock posted about his amazing collection a few years ago, yet we had some turds complaining that his collection was crap because he didn't have enough high end shoos. Even had Raj putting me down because my Grenson Masterpieces weren't up to Edward Green standards (that coming from someone who started life purchasing Kenneth Cole because he thought they were quality.  Bwahahaha).

That's my problem with EG's and the like. Will I get twice the mileage out of a shoe that costs twice (or more) what my Alden's do? I wouldn't think so. I think some of thse folks buy them to look at (or show off on the interweb)- not wear.


One conjects that you, sir, are an ascot flaunting, pomaded, proletarian mountebank fomenting discordance amongst this august body. -jamgood

 

#42 2008-03-17 09:33:19

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

yachtie wrote:

The_Shooman wrote:

Russell_Street wrote:

"The Look" at a quality level reflected in their price. A good way in I think.

Always good to see the style accessible to all.

Well said.


lt is a real pity that we have the shoe snobbery that we do on the boards. l just don't get it. Mr Pollock posted about his amazing collection a few years ago, yet we had some turds complaining that his collection was crap because he didn't have enough high end shoos. Even had Raj putting me down because my Grenson Masterpieces weren't up to Edward Green standards (that coming from someone who started life purchasing Kenneth Cole because he thought they were quality.  Bwahahaha).

That's my problem with EG's and the like. Will I get twice the mileage out of a shoe that costs twice (or more) what my Alden's do? I wouldn't think so. I think some of thse folks buy them to look at (or show off on the interweb)- not wear.

That's my argument against cordovan, too. The shell cordovan uppers may last "20 years", but the soles certainly don't.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#43 2008-03-17 12:22:04

tripchauncey
Member
Posts: 560

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Russell_Street wrote:

Wonder who makes these inexpensive lumps of leather?

http://www.shiptonandheneage.co.uk/erol.html#2090X583

Are they Loakes?

http://www.pediwear.com/detail.php?stock_ID=1057

????

Thanks -

Chum,

Same shoo perchance?

http://www.jpressonline.com/accessories … l.php?ix=6

 

#44 2008-03-17 12:42:28

yachtie
Member
Posts: 843

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Tony Ventresca wrote:

yachtie wrote:

The_Shooman wrote:

Well said.


lt is a real pity that we have the shoe snobbery that we do on the boards. l just don't get it. Mr Pollock posted about his amazing collection a few years ago, yet we had some turds complaining that his collection was crap because he didn't have enough high end shoos. Even had Raj putting me down because my Grenson Masterpieces weren't up to Edward Green standards (that coming from someone who started life purchasing Kenneth Cole because he thought they were quality.  Bwahahaha).

That's my problem with EG's and the like. Will I get twice the mileage out of a shoe that costs twice (or more) what my Alden's do? I wouldn't think so. I think some of thse folks buy them to look at (or show off on the interweb)- not wear.

That's my argument against cordovan, too. The shell cordovan uppers may last "20 years", but the soles certainly don't.

No problems there. I my older Alden's are on their 3rd or 4th soles ( and prob. their 6th or 7th heels).  I never toss a shoe until the upper fails- and that's after many resolings. So cordovan uppers make sense for me.

Last edited by yachtie (2008-03-17 12:45:18)


One conjects that you, sir, are an ascot flaunting, pomaded, proletarian mountebank fomenting discordance amongst this august body. -jamgood

 

#45 2008-03-17 12:54:52

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

^ This always reminds me of the old saw about my this being my grandfather's axe: my father changed the handle, and I changed the blade, but it's my grandfather's axe. Someone needs to do a life cycle analysis on recrafting shoes...I expect the results might show a curve after which there is a diminishing return from recrafting a certain number of times. One might do better to just buy a second pair of shoes instead of doing the extra recrafts on the first pair. Who knows, math is not my thing.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#46 2008-03-17 13:36:55

yachtie
Member
Posts: 843

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Tony Ventresca wrote:

^ This always reminds me of the old saw about my this being my grandfather's axe: my father changed the handle, and I changed the blade, but it's my grandfather's axe. Someone needs to do a life cycle analysis on recrafting shoes...I expect the results might show a curve after which there is a diminishing return from recrafting a certain number of times. One might do better to just buy a second pair of shoes instead of doing the extra recrafts on the first pair. Who knows, math is not my thing.

My thoughts are that soles are the "disposable" part of the shoe and the uppers are the "durable" part.  To use your analogy, several handles on the same axe head. I'm pretty hard on uppers generally so after a couple of bad experinces with blowing through calfskin uppers,  I've tended to buy-and gotten good mileage out of- shells.
Really, as long as the welt and uppers hold out, one should be able to keep replacing soles 'til the cows come home. My personal experience is that calf uppers have shorter lives than shell ones do- but I'll agree that there is a diminishing returns curve as you get over 15 years out  and they all become "garden" shoes eventually. As I get more shoes, my feeling is that this ( the added longevity of shell) will be less of an issue.

I've just never thought of shoes as "permanent" anyway. But I really like milking them to the very end.

Last edited by yachtie (2008-03-17 13:42:23)


One conjects that you, sir, are an ascot flaunting, pomaded, proletarian mountebank fomenting discordance amongst this august body. -jamgood

 

#47 2008-03-17 15:32:06

Voltaire's Bastard
Member
Posts: 967

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Tony Ventresca wrote:

^ One might do better to just buy a second pair of shoes instead of doing the extra recrafts on the first pair. .

I've been doing this for years.  Seems much the simpler approach, in the long run.


“You know that saying, 'Caesar's wife is above suspicion'? Well I put an end to all that rubbish!"..”

 

#48 2008-03-17 15:43:04

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

yachtie wrote:

Tony Ventresca wrote:

^ This always reminds me of the old saw about my this being my grandfather's axe: my father changed the handle, and I changed the blade, but it's my grandfather's axe. Someone needs to do a life cycle analysis on recrafting shoes...I expect the results might show a curve after which there is a diminishing return from recrafting a certain number of times. One might do better to just buy a second pair of shoes instead of doing the extra recrafts on the first pair. Who knows, math is not my thing.

My thoughts are that soles are the "disposable" part of the shoe and the uppers are the "durable" part.  To use your analogy, several handles on the same axe head. I'm pretty hard on uppers generally so after a couple of bad experinces with blowing through calfskin uppers,  I've tended to buy-and gotten good mileage out of- shells.
Really, as long as the welt and uppers hold out, one should be able to keep replacing soles 'til the cows come home. My personal experience is that calf uppers have shorter lives than shell ones do- but I'll agree that there is a diminishing returns curve as you get over 15 years out  and they all become "garden" shoes eventually. As I get more shoes, my feeling is that this ( the added longevity of shell) will be less of an issue.

I've just never thought of shoes as "permanent" anyway. But I really like milking them to the very end.

Okay, fair enough; you've obviously thought it through, so I see your point. I tend to destroy shoes, so even cordovan would be pointless. The argument that you make for several pairs is sound, I think. With enough shoes in "rotation" (uuugh, such an Internet Gentleman word) you could keep the original soles going for a long time.

I hope maybe our British and European memberships could comment: Europeans walk a lot more than Americans, so how do they find wearing out shoes? Big problem, or not?


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#49 2008-03-17 21:23:45

Horace
Member
Posts: 6196

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

Tony Ventresca wrote:

yachtie wrote:

Tony Ventresca wrote:

^ This always reminds me of the old saw about my this being my grandfather's axe: my father changed the handle, and I changed the blade, but it's my grandfather's axe. Someone needs to do a life cycle analysis on recrafting shoes...I expect the results might show a curve after which there is a diminishing return from recrafting a certain number of times. One might do better to just buy a second pair of shoes instead of doing the extra recrafts on the first pair. Who knows, math is not my thing.

My thoughts are that soles are the "disposable" part of the shoe and the uppers are the "durable" part.  To use your analogy, several handles on the same axe head. I'm pretty hard on uppers generally so after a couple of bad experinces with blowing through calfskin uppers,  I've tended to buy-and gotten good mileage out of- shells.
Really, as long as the welt and uppers hold out, one should be able to keep replacing soles 'til the cows come home. My personal experience is that calf uppers have shorter lives than shell ones do- but I'll agree that there is a diminishing returns curve as you get over 15 years out  and they all become "garden" shoes eventually. As I get more shoes, my feeling is that this ( the added longevity of shell) will be less of an issue.

I've just never thought of shoes as "permanent" anyway. But I really like milking them to the very end.

Okay, fair enough; you've obviously thought it through, so I see your point. I tend to destroy shoes, so even cordovan would be pointless. The argument that you make for several pairs is sound, I think. With enough shoes in "rotation" (uuugh, such an Internet Gentleman word) you could keep the original soles going for a long time.

I hope maybe our British and European memberships could comment: Europeans walk a lot more than Americans, so how do they find wearing out shoes? Big problem, or not?

Some interesting thoughts.  The internet gentleman loves to praise the durability of the shoe's life -- that it can withstand several recrafts.  I like cordo (for the aesthetics), though I appreciate the piss-take on the cult of the cordo.  I just had a new pair of soles put on a pair of Alden cordos, and Alden did a great job.  As for heals, I by direct from Alden and have a local cobbler put them on.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#50 2008-03-18 04:57:22

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Gun Boats - like `em or h8 `em?

tripchauncey wrote:

Russell_Street wrote:

Wonder who makes these inexpensive lumps of leather?

http://www.shiptonandheneage.co.uk/erol.html#2090X583

Are they Loakes?

http://www.pediwear.com/detail.php?stock_ID=1057

????

Thanks -

Chum,

Same shoo perchance?

http://www.jpressonline.com/accessories … l.php?ix=6

Hmmmmm -

Nice Shoe whatever. Loake is maybe a bit too entry level for Press? Dunno.

Tony - I think whatever your nationality you either have a shoe fetish or you don't. Most Europeans do indeed walk more than most Americans. It's a car thing I think. Or that distances are greater in the great big spread out US. Not sure.
My father lived in Churchs and indeed was buried in a pair. He just wore them, had them repaired as & when, & then threw them away without a backward glance. They aren't meant to last. Trickers he treated with more respect for some reason.

It's also worthy of mention that he found anything overly expensive quite literally obscene.
Things should be well made & good for their price. Nothing more. To spend a large amount of good money (always "good money" to him) on a pair of shoes would have been something which he would have found disgusting. The act of a willful degenerate like my beloved Uncle George.
Cordo Aldens may last & last but the initial outlay on them would have been against my father's every principle.

"Very showy" he'd have sniffed, refering to the action of buying them in the first place not to the appearance of the shoes.
He equally lived modestly in every other respect. His T&A shirts were always bought in the January sales and he always used country tailors over London ones on the few occasions he had something made to measure. Usually he would buy good quality RTW in the sales and have it altered to fit.

Very Trad you might think. And "Don't be so bloody stupid" would have been his relpy. wink

J.


J.

 

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