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#51 2006-12-25 01:01:13

Horace
Member
Posts: 6186

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Tony Ventresca wrote:

From an interview with Ed Mosher, an actor, magician, and local impressario (I think), who is discussing his activities after leaving the military in 1955. Finally we have a date we can work with: the Ivy League look had not yet spread to California by 1955, when Mosher opened his store, so the widespread adoption of the look dates from the late 1950s at the earliest.

When Mosher got his discharge, the movie business was still suffering from TV, foreign competition and the shenanigans of Senator Joe McCarthy, so Mosher, who even as a child had been entrepreneurial (he sold figs from his backyard door-to-door), decided to start a business.

"The next closest thing to theatre I could think of was men's clothing - it had lights, action, camera," Mosher said.

"And I hated the clothes we had in California, which were the so-called Hollywood look - baggy zoot suits and that kind of thing. I liked the Ivy League look, which hadn't reached California yet, so I opened the first clothing store in Northern California selling Ivy League clothes. Everyone laughed, but then Playboy and Sports Illustrated started writing about this new, Ivy League look, and it took off."

Excellent TonyV -- I wonder though if we can date the first Ivy Shop in America.  One that specifically had a delineated style distinct from Brooks & Press.   Andover was dropping the style in the 40's.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#52 2006-12-25 09:01:38

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

The article below was cited in the references for an academic history course on 1950s America. The 1955 date appears again. Can someone here find a copy?

Bailey, Perkins H. “The Ivy League Look Goes National.” Look 23 August 1955: pp. 62, 64-65.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#53 2006-12-26 03:12:25

Horace
Member
Posts: 6186

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Tony Ventresca wrote:

The article below was cited in the references for an academic history course on 1950s America. The 1955 date appears again. Can someone here find a copy?

Bailey, Perkins H. “The Ivy League Look Goes National.” Look 23 August 1955: pp. 62, 64-65.

Thanks Tony V.  Have you seen the old MIT publication (in PDF scans) of the review of college fashion across the US and divided into regions?  I believe it was conducted during the 50's.  The scans were posted on AAAC and possible in the Amer Trad thread, but I don't know if they're still there.

I also had an article about a closing of a shop at one of the University of California Campuses in the 1990's, which had been founded in the 50's.  There were some interesting quotations.  I believe the shop was called "Wilger & Co." and was located near the Univ. of Calif. campus at Los Angeles.  I learned of the shop from a lawyer friend who was a devotee of the Brethren.

I've heard people mention Carroll & Co. in Beverly Hills.  But from what I've seen, and from what others have remarked, it's a lot of Italianate stuff now.  I was in town there a while ago and dropped in.  It certainly had changed from "way back when".

Another place that's frequently cited as Trad -- Cable Car -- always seemed more British to me.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#54 2006-12-27 16:52:51

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Short quote from www.ties.com.

Tremendously wide neckties started the 1950s - just look at what Harry Truman wore. But when the 1960s came in and JFK took over, things looked a lot different. The "Ivy League" look included ties so skinny they were barely wide enough to cover your shirt buttons.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#55 2006-12-28 14:18:40

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Flipping throught the Edgren book on 60 Years Of Playboy, I came across two interesting photos:

1. Photo of the interior of a men's shop, with a ton of suits hanging on racks and a young fellow flipping through them. Visible on the window (reversed) was the lettering "Playboy Ivy Center".

2. Photo of several college football all-stars with the Playboy football columnist. The players are all wearing letter-sweaters, over white shirts and ties, and a variety of dress pants. The white shirts are all button-downs or tab collars. The ties are all about as wide as my thumb. The pants had cuffs and no-cuffs. The shoes were a mixed bag of lace-ups, slip-ons, and loafers, including a pair of plain-vamp penny loafers.

By the way, I highly recommend the book, not just for the photos.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#56 2006-12-28 15:50:26

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Playboy Ivy!

I can live with that.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#57 2006-12-29 04:25:11

Daniele
Member
Posts: 368

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

 

#58 2006-12-29 06:44:42

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Fantastic stuff!
Many thanks D. & a very Happy New Year to you.

David


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#59 2006-12-30 08:34:52

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Here's an article on Giuliano Fujiwara from www.answers.com.

The Fujiwara style is a curious mixture of American Ivy League, Japanese stark simplicity, and Italian sensitivity in fabrication and workmanship. Take a typical Fujiwara jacket: it has many similarities to the traditional American style—a straight-cut body, the high button stance, small lapels, the jacket length shorter that the Savile Row prototype. "The Ivy League style was my first love. I loved the way JFK looked," he says, remembering his college days when he organized a group to study the manner of dressing. His first job was with a company called Van Jacket. Although it has long been defunct, Van was a catalyst in propagating the Ivy League look in post-World War II Japan, and its influence is felt even today, as in Fujiwara's case.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#60 2007-01-04 08:24:12

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Found an article on www.john-meekings.co.uk about the Yardbirds, of which Eric Clapton was a member. Apparently his sartorial influence was strong.

The Rolling Stones were the big band in the area at the time. They were managed by Giorgio Gomelsky, who owned the Crawdaddy Club, Richmond, where the Stones played to packed houses. After the Stones had left Gomelsky for richer pickings, the Yardbirds were signed up as the replacement resident band at the Crawdaddy. However, as the Yardbirds became more and more popular, there were problems with Tony Topham. He was only 16 years old and his parents were unhappy that he was neglecting his education to play with the band. In October 1963 Topham left to return to art school. Keith Relf remembered a good guitarist from his art school who might become a replacement and Eric [Clapton] turned up for a Yardbirds rehearsal at the South Western Hotel in Richmond. As Chris Dreja said he was so much more talented and advanced as a guitarist, knew more numbers. The whole thing went straight into a new dimension. Eric fitted in well with the band's repertoire, but the social adjustments took a bit longer; Jim McCarty found Eric moody and unapproachable, while Eric thought Paul Samwell-Smith was far too straight to be playing the blues.

Eric also had strict ideas about his appearance: while the others were trying to be rebellious with long hair, Eric sported an Ivy League haircut.

But soon Eric, Keith and Chris were sharing a flat and tensions eased. Eric recalled later, "I remember that as being one of the best periods of my youth you know, 'cos everyone was just having fun, it was fantastic sharing that bedroom with Chris, hilarious times". For Chris, Eric was a revelation: "I shared a room with Eric and for those six months it was like we were brothers. He was a big influence on the Ivy League look; we used to go to a store on Shaftesbury Avenue and he would advise me on what I should wear". At this point, Eric was having a good time on stage too. The Yardbirds had succeeded in winning over the Stones fans at the Crawdaddy and Eric was now the star of the show, often being introduced by Gomelsky as 'Slowhand'. Eric believes it was a play on his name: slowhand clap-ton.


Here's a photo of the band, but I have no idea who is who.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4206/yardbirdsuf9.gif


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#61 2007-01-04 08:37:35

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Dreja & then Clapton are nearest the camera.
The shop on Shaftsbury Avenue was Austins. Clapton introduced Dreja to the place I think and both looked mighty fine as a result.
Eric really spearheaded the whole Austins Ivy Modernist look in my book. Opened it all up & made it much more popular. Charlie Watts of the Stones got there before Eric however.
'Five Live Yardbirds' has Mr. Clapton in a great pale/mid-grey Ivy suit on the cover looking cool as... (you know).

Mr. Chris H. is the expert on all this & even has a personal connection to the Five Live Yardbirds cover.

http://www.amazon.com/Five-Live-Yardbirds/dp/B000085RUJ

Eric's in the middle.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#62 2007-01-04 10:52:34

Chris_H
Ivy Original
From: Watford
Posts: 1614

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/seaoftunes/Yardbirds.jpg

Here is a pic of the Yardbirds possibly taken in early 1964. Chris Dreja is on the far left and Eric Clapton is next to him, leaning against the tree. This is ivy league worn London style with the top button done up (before we knew better!).

As David has already pointed out Eric and Chris had a lot to do with popularising the Austins ivy look with the London mods, although Charlie Watts and Georgie Fame had been regulars at the shop well before them.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/seaoftunes/famegeorgie.jpg

Georgie Fame & The Blue Flames


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/seaoftunes/cliff.jpg

Another london band, Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers wearing madras.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/seaoftunes/charlie.jpg

Lastly an early pic of the Stones with Charlie in the middle.

 

#63 2007-01-04 11:00:36

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

I should be kicked for forgetting to mention Mr. Fame...

Time rolls on & I think his importance grows -

He got on the right track (baby) before so many others.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#64 2007-01-04 16:14:16

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Thank you Terry and Chris, for remembering so much!
There appears to be a lot of words and images out there.
We just need to find them.

I can't begin to describe how exciting this stuff is!
Ivy for everyone!
Style for everyone!


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#65 2007-01-05 15:55:27

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

From www.uppers.org:

Much has been said and written about the modern aspect of Modernism and its longevity as such. For the sake of this article let's simply assume the modern bit stood and still stands for a forward thinking attitude (you know it makes sense) and being both inventive and adventurous clothes-wise anyway. Even in its purest form though, before the so-called Mod movement existed, early stylism meant the use of the then modern Italian cut combined with the very trad Ivy League look. So there!


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#66 2007-01-06 01:49:54

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

That's the stuff!
Nice quote Tony - Thanks.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#67 2007-01-07 15:05:04

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Photos of the Yardbirds in 1965.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1954/3203009yardbirds1965rf6.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3057/3009514yardbirds1965rt7.jpg


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#68 2007-01-09 16:03:47

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Various quotes from the internet.

From www.gillers.com:

1957: Men take on the Ivy League look (pre-preppie), with buttoned-down shirts, three-button single-breasted suits and pants without pleats...


From www.answers.com:

Brooks Brothers, the famous New York clothier, is thought to have introduced the first ready-to-wear men's suits in the United States in 1845 and pioneered the "sack suit" around the turn of the century. The comfortable, boxy-looking sack suit was a stark departure from the tight-fitting suits with padded shoulders and pleated trousers that were then popular in Europe, and it was considered the first genuinely American business attire. The sack suit evolved into the Ivy League look of the 1950s and the celebrated gray flannel suit of the 1960s.


From a site on the cultural impact of clothing (cannot recover link):

Clothes As Social Ornaments: We use clothes to pad and remodel our body contours to transform our social image. Shoulder padding is probably the best example. It was exaggerated in the zoot-suiter and de-emphasized somewhat in the round-shouldered, boyish ivy-league look.


From www.tomchristopher.com, quoting Dr Rigney (from his book) on the Beat generation. How interesting that the Ivy League look was common among the Beats, when "history" has told us they dressed in black turtlenecks, black berets, etc.

In dress, the Ivy League look was as common as the stereotypical black slack and sweater look.


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#69 2007-01-10 00:45:04

Horace
Member
Posts: 6186

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Also -- I should note that Miles Davis's original Ivy haberdasher (not only a purveyor of the then hip look but an Andover man himself, pre-WWII)  contradicts everything that Dopey has posted in reply to Terry's brother (?), Mr. Larry Lean, on the SF thread, but why bother....or, as the kids now say, meh...


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#70 2007-01-10 01:06:08

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Horace wrote:

Also -- I should note that Miles Davis's original Ivy haberdasher (not only a purveyor of the then hip look but an Andover man himself, pre-WWII)  contradicts everything that Dopey has posted in reply to Terry's brother (?), Mr. Larry Lean, on the SF thread, but why bother....or, as the kids now say, meh...

*Splutter*

Why bother? Why bother!

Brother, stay strong in the faith I beg of you - Vaclav & I will rush round with some Calvados, old Blue Note LPs and a stack of pre-M&S Brooks catalogues just as soon as Brother V. returnes fron the Poconos (sp?).

Dopey actually acted as quite a good foil for Larry to bounce ideas against I thought. D. was trolling obviously but he did help move the discussion along - Hurrah for Trolls!
Slightly more seriously (!) Larry's 'work' on StyleForum highlights the image problem that the 'Trads' have now after presenting themselves in the way they have for quite so long. It really does give other people out there a very bad idea about classic American tailoring.

The most we can do is try to remind the world that Trad is just one small take on the Ivy League look's heritage. You don't actually have to be a bit of a snob to wear the threads.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#71 2007-01-10 02:04:56

Horace
Member
Posts: 6186

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Quick addendum before more tomorrow:  I just got Blue Note Coltrane and JJ Johnson.  ALso got the Mulligan & Baker sessions on CD.  And the new Miles 4 disc Prestige recordings that came out last year.  Great stuff. 

Darn that Dream....


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#72 2007-01-10 05:31:44

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Horace wrote:

Quick addendum before more tomorrow:  I just got Blue Note Coltrane and JJ Johnson.  ALso got the Mulligan & Baker sessions on CD.  And the new Miles 4 disc Prestige recordings that came out last year.  Great stuff. 

Darn that Dream....

Fantastic!
I'm listening to Lee Morgan's 'Leeway' as I type.
So much good stuff out there...
Blue Note Coltrane must be 'Blue Train', yes?
Unbeatable!


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#73 2007-01-10 08:26:48

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

The Yardbirds in 1965, note various types of collars.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1968/hu0237311965ju9.jpg


"Clothes make the man only if they fit." Carole Jackson
"Once upon a time, life was not better. It was just different." William Norwich
"This is one of the testimonial pictures that Satan uses in his brochures." Anonymous

 

#74 2007-01-10 10:04:11

Chris_H
Ivy Original
From: Watford
Posts: 1614

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Great picture Tony. Would the the guy at the back be Giorgio Gomelesky the Yardbird's manager? Prior to this (I believe) he originally managed the Rolling Stones before Andrew Loog Oldham signed them. Oldham was a 'UK Ivy look' wearer back in the day. He was also another of Austin's customers. Here he is wearing a tab collar.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/seaoftunes/andrew.jpg

 

#75 2007-01-10 11:12:41

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Old Oldham's book is worth a look.
Mine's on loan but it's called Stoned or Smashed or somesuch.
Oldham knocked around with Pete Meaden for a bit...
Poor Pete. A Mod not a Modernist, but did any other religion ever have such a mad monk?
God rest his pilled-up soul.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

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