And to exemplify the point, Armchaired nails it again.  Of course from that pic you can't tell that he may be wearing pleated polyester flares and cowboy boots.  Not that those items can't fit into an ivy framework.

...Garth Brooks Brothers.

This is Continental Ivy, simple enough:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/404597_4085990582943_1266259903_n.jpg

The jacket is Italian, shorter cut and darted but completely unstructured, the trousers mid-length rise and the rest is pure US of A - vintage Purist, 60s knit tie, American venetian loafers... it's an early-to-mid-sixties youthful look that was the counterpart of the fully suited ivy league look. Just as high water chinos and canvas shoes were the west coast cool counterpart of the east coast casual look documented in Take Ivy. It's a stylistic mix of everything that's cool about Italy and new wave cinema, mid-century Madison Ave and ivy league button downs, tab shirts, shoes and ties. It's a prefectly relevant and acceptable term and it applies to

If proper Ivy is just solid herringbone, tweed and seersucker 3/2 sacks or straight takes on the classic University Shop suit with plain oxford button downs then that'd get pretty dull. What do you call this full three-button undarted Cricketeer?

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/644551_10151028386632714_2144231876_n.jpg

Jivy ivy or whatever the hell you like... the pants are American and high waisted, the shirt is a 50s Hathaway, the shoes, silk tie, etc - all 100% Ivy. But it still *looks* equal parts EU to my eyes in contrast to the usual solid button downs and vintage American herringbones that you guys use to define "the look". I've even gotten the M-word tossed around.

My point is that unless you are talking specifically about tailoring - terms like Continental and Ivy were not exclusive or even inherently related (beyond the inception of the American style!) to anything having to do with geography. Ol' Blue Eyes was as American as apple pie and dressed in "continental style" while the majority of us dress like J. Pierpont Finch and came to "ivy" from a UK inspired take filtered through the black music machine of the look!! There IS such a thing as Continental Ivy and I would cite the two examples of above as evidence. A lot of the UK beat groups mixed elements of British and American tailoring, shirting, etc. in a way that was clearly far removed from the English look and resembling more what WE would wear, but still retained elements that are outside the boundaries of ivy. As did most of the cats in HATIL from Cassavetes to Poitier to McQueen himself. My rule is that soft tailoring, button downs, natural shoulders, trouser rise = not exclusive to ivy BUT all elements that fit into "the look".

Therefore, continental ivy works just fine as an adjective for this style.

Last edited by Oliver (2013-04-30 11:36:39)

That is exactly my point though: IVY is not really a style of tailoring. It's a marriage between a traditional American style of tailoring and many other elements that make up the style and look. You could argue that Brooks Brothers is more synonymous with American soft tailoring (the SACK suit) as a defining terminology than ivy, and surely more tailors these days would understand the reference! Ivy is a LOOK. It's not biased to Makers and 3/2 sack jackets. There IS a crossover with the Continental look. What I was trying to point out above, is that unless you are using terms like Continental in direct reference to a style of tailoring, then it really has nothing to do with American vs. Italian vs. French vs. UK. The ivy LOOK was interpreted everywhere and often times, crossing over with the "continental look" or French look or whatever.

Last edited by Oliver (2013-04-30 11:49:02)

Can't there just be some more pictures posted of dudes in shorts and madras shirts or something?

Last edited by THAW !!!! (2013-04-30 12:04:12)