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#26 2022-03-29 10:37:56

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

A thread worth reviving, especially for anyone who has grown a little suspicious or tired of the constant pushing (often by myself) of USA-made items.  'Talk Ivy' was really buzzing in those pre-FB/IG/what-have-you days, with great input from both sides of the Atlantic (Hank over in Germany, for instance).

 

#27 2022-03-29 11:12:51

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2178

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

I'd forgotten about the company Albam mentioned by 1966. Looking at what they supply today it looks as if they manufacture in Portugal and not the East Midlands factories anymore.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#28 2022-03-29 11:53:42

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2178

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

And 6876 is still in existence. Not many products for sale and they stamp the number on everything. Again most products manufactured in Portugal.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#29 2022-03-29 11:56:11

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

I've gone back to looking - when I do look at all, that is, being pretty well provided for - for names like M&S: when Made In England.  For instance, their lambswool sweaters occasionally turn up, generally at around the £5 mark, and are still worth having.  I've looked over what Cable Car sold in and around San Francisco and they truly remind me of M&S.  Good, solid, plain knitwear in decent colours (and sometimes slightly offbeat ones like mustard).  Our esteemed poster, Horace (absent of late) has commented on the American liking for English (probably Scottish more so) knitwear.  I take him very much at face value.  So I'll often be wearing an American shirt with an English or Scottish made sweater.  The Brooks navy cashmere I've had for a good many years now and am currently living in (darned, it is) was made in Scotland.  But, new, it was about £350 (not, I assure you, what I shelled out for it).

 

#30 2022-03-29 11:57:36

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

In fact, some of the worse knitwear I've had was Italian.

 

#31 2022-03-29 12:25:02

Tim
Member
Posts: 289

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

I remember Albam opening their first shop and thinking some of it had that "quite tasty" vibe. I too had forgotten about them until just last night, when somehow they cropped into my mind. A quick look told me nothing much had changed, some quite nice clobber. These days with Albam stamped all over it. I can't be then only person to eschew names on clothing can I, almost certainly not on this forum I'd have thought!

I inherited some lovely vintage cashmere from the likes of N Peal, Made in England M&S, Hawick etc etc from my father when he died. None of it ever fit me though, I'd out grown him by the time I was about 17.

Knit-wear is something I'm only now starting to understand and appreciate - I did at one stage have a pair of gorgeous Cashmere/Lambswool mix Shawl-collar jumpers from Brooks Brothers. Special-ordered from the US via their Regent St store shortly after it opened (2006 ish?) and also made in Scotland. One in Burgundy, the other in what they described as "Biscuit" AKA Beige. I wish I could remember what happened to them but they're long a thing of memory.

I'm reminded of one of the last blog articles The Weejun posted - "In Praise of De Paz" - even with the internet and availability of stuff online, it still feels as if the best stuff finds it's way out of the British Isles to the export market.

 

#32 2022-03-29 12:51:42

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Is the Burberrys' '21' still made in England?  Wasn't it 'for export only' - to Japan - so ownership of one conferred special status.  I never did cotton to that 'Ivy For Everyone' shtick. 
The Weejun, of course, has always been ahead of the game.  He's greatly missed on 'Talk Ivy'.
Those Brooks jumpers sound something like the nice Paul Stuart I bought last month, Tim.

 

#33 2022-03-29 14:56:19

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

At one time there seems to have been a definite nostalgia in the USA for clothing from the British Isles, especially in the Ivy heartlands of the North East. Unsurprising, given the large number of people in that quadrant of the country who proudly trace their lineage back to England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Eire. But the allegiance to British and Irish clobber is not so strong in other areas of the US where the Ivy look was not so popular either. The US is becoming more diverse as immigration no longer follows previous patterns and catchment areas, 80% of entrants now come from Asia, South and Latin America or Africa. Leaving aside the trend toward more and more casual attire, why would someone from Columbia be interested in owning a Scottish sweater?


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#34 2022-03-29 15:20:53

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 796

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

The crossover is still there.
I'm sure Press still sell Corgi and Pantherella socks. The college scarves are English. I'm sure but it's not official that the knits are Alan Paine. They still sell Barbour and Barracuta too.
The reversible coats are Chrysalis from Northampton and the they also offer Greenfell raincoats.
Atkinson IRISH Poplin ties are still made in the UK.
Shaggy Dogs are made to their spec but are still proper shetlands.

 

#35 2022-03-29 23:55:55

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Woof raises some interesting points about immigration into the United States.  Hadn't occurred to me.  So - 'old money' shuffles off to Buffalo?

 

#36 2022-03-30 01:26:19

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Alvey - The reversible coats are Chrysalis from Northampton and the they also offer Grenfell raincoats.

I tried on one of those Chrysalis reversible coats in J Press a few years ago. O’Connell’s also stock them but $1300 is too much for me. But I continued too admire them and discovered that New and Longwood sell them, for just under £1,000, again too much for a casual purchase. But I have continued to idly google them now and then in the hope of seeing them on sale somewhere. So you can imagine the excitement recently when it popped up that TK Maax had one left in a size 52 for £152!! Imagine my dismay when it arrived and I discovered that what I had for some reason assumed was a continental size 52 turned out to be a 52 chest. Having decided against using it as an improvised Yurt I returned it.

Lovely coats.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#37 2022-03-30 01:55:59

Tworussellstreet
Member
Posts: 599

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Woof's US demographic analysis is spot-on, and further highlights the extent to which our beloved Ivy Look becomes more and more niche in its homeland. In 1960 Ivy League style accounted for about 70% of the US market, today what must it be? 5%? Though I must say, as sad as the demise of the great American makers and retailers is, I welcome the erosion of WASP culture in the States. The rise of the likes of Trump is partly due to white working class entrenchment in the wake of a country changing around them. Given time their resistance will wane as a new America emerges, hopefully one rooted more in the true principles of the American constitution. Sorry to get all heavy here, this is just a topic that fascinates me. We are in love with an image of America that no longer exists apart from on a few sandy beaches on Cape Cod. Clothes as the ultimate metaphor - no doubt about that.

 

#38 2022-03-30 02:26:26

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Is it not acknowledged that the vision of the United States most of us have is rooted in fantasy?  If it isn't then it should be.  I view the place from a distance, in both time and space, having feasted on their TV and comic-books principally, then their films (or movies, if you prefer), then song lyrics, photographs of Clift, Newman etc.  Growing up, it was all around me: in the home: father listening to jazz, mother listening to Sinatra or 'South Pacific' or 'Moon River'. 
The subject of the Constitution, TRS, is a thorny one.  I used to hear my brighter students claim that the UK lacks one.  It doesn't.  It's written down but not codified.  I wonder how many Americans of today bother their heads about it.

 

#39 2022-03-30 02:33:43

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

As to WASP culture, what is that?  I was reading Stephen King last week (the literary equivalent of a gaudy shirt or Big Mac and fries).  One of his characters (based loosely upon himself) sneers at one of the former town bully boys, now driving round with a Reagan/Bush In 1980 sticker on his fender.  Not the type, perhaps, one would think of as WASP-ish.  I tend to think more of a William Buckley or Tom Wolfe figure. 
Read Mencken: 'Democracy is the notion that once every four or five years, men and women think they know what they want - and then they deserve to get it, hot and strong'.  One of Paxman's journalistic heroes.

 

#40 2022-07-04 05:36:38

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Not English in this instance but Scottish or Irish...  I'm indebted to Horace, who convinced me to look closer to home for high quality knitwear.  As he comments on another thread, digging around in the UK can produce results.

 

#41 2022-07-04 09:18:56

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Q. Is there really such a creature as an English 'Ivy' item, favourite or otherwise? 
It's possible (even probable) that England valued more in the way of 'cross-pollination' than the United States.  And still does.
Have Vetra, Keydge, Paraboot, Mugler etc. found a place over there? 
John Simons, over the years, may have left O'Connell's standing.

 

#42 2022-07-04 09:29:07

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

I cannot, for the life of me, picture TRS wearing anything from Dunn&Co. - not even when he was a young scally wandering the streets of London looking for gold.  Oh, I know he and his chums, in common with Frosty pre-Pad and Jim, had to make do and mend jacketwise - but Dunn I'm sure would have been as off-limits as Hepworths, Collier and Monty Burton.  He'll correct me if I'm wrong.  I expect, like Frosty, he observed Mr. Strachan, Mr.Simons, Mr.Lally and certain others and drew suitable conclusions: pare it back and down.
Here endeth the lesson.

 

#43 2022-07-04 10:28:57

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4120

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Dunn & co. was for retired folk. Hepworth was slightly upmarket of Burtons and the fifty shilling tailor.

That said, Burton made my brother a blazer with an off centre vent and patch pockets. We did not know anything about shoulders or three buttons rolled to two at the time. Nice houndstooth trousers too. Not bad for a teenage schoolboy.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#44 2022-07-04 11:51:33

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2178

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

My crombie (off the peg) was bought from Dunn and Co when I was 16. From Hepworth's I had a made to measure Prince of Wales checked jacket with blue (or was it red?) overcheck. Burton was good for having a suit made up and there was a wide variety of cloth to choose from. Like Kingy we didn't know about shoulders or rolled 3 to 2 although our jackets were always 3 button. As a teenager, off the peg was considered inferior to made to measure and I was an ordinary working class boy (but I was always earning outside of school hours). Different world.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#45 2022-07-04 15:22:24

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 796

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

What was the English crossover at Ivy/J Simons. I'd be interested to know if anything still available was around then.

Many years ago I went to a Bat Mitzvah in upstate Now York wearing Weejuns and a soft shoulder suit. Im my addled mind I thought that would be the norm but I looked positively dowdy in comparison to the Zegna and Armani clad gentlemen dancing the Horah.

 

#46 2022-07-05 01:17:08

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

I remember Jeff G telling me they'd once sold Smedley at Russell Street.  They certainly did at the Ivy Shop.
Also Peter Geeson at Russell Street.

 

#47 2022-07-05 01:44:47

Tworussellstreet
Member
Posts: 599

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

The Ivy Shop was a bit more English than J.Simons primarily due to its location. There were, and probably still are, some Sloaney types on Richmond Hill, 'rus in urbe' and all that, and such rugged chaps like their heavy cords, and sensible shoes, and Viyella shirts, and chunky knitwear. J.Simons was much jazzier and adventurous, but John himself adores the Savile Row/old school English way of dressing, so in his own dress, and sometimes in his vintage selections, he would quote from the English side of the traditional family. Also toffs from the nearby law courts would often come in and John could sell to them and dress them fantastically well, and these chaps weren't there for Ivy League. When I think back, his ability to understand and adapt to the unspoken sartorial desires of his many varied types of customer was remarkable to witness.

 

#48 2022-07-05 01:56:06

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

I remember walking with JS somewhere circa 2007.  He'd acquired a good suit and was keen to get a good fit so was watching his waistline. 
He'd mix, match and whatnot, I think (flannel and denim perhaps?  Savvy Row with a chambray BD?). 
Anglo bits and pieces always seemed part of the canon - which I was relieved about because it meant my 'vintage' scouting was that much easier.

 

#49 2022-07-05 02:11:26

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

Mixing comes easily and naturally: the other weekend, a Peter Geeson navy long-sleeve polo shirt beneath a summerweight USA-made Hilfiger jacket.  One item made within a thirty minute drive of where I live, the other on the opposite side of the Atlantic.  Maybe that's how it should be: hands across the water.  It seems natural enough when our American friends favour Barbour (which has gone so far overground in England it's positively blinded by the sunlight).

 

#50 2022-07-05 03:05:11

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 796

Re: Favourite English Ivy Items

John has defiantly got his own style and ways of putting things together.

Personally, I struggle with some of the traditional English attire. I see it a lot during the Summer at cricket. Big and bold club stripe ties, bright red trousers worn with heavily creased linen jackets, lots of suede lace ups,  faint check spread collar shirts. Jermyn Street in its natural environment.

As I'm not a toff, from the Home Counties or work in a traditional industry I would feel that, as good as some of the stuff is, I had raided the dressing up box if I attempted to wear it.

Some of the Americans I used to work with loved all that. Their first stop after disembarking off the red-eye was Burberrys followed by a ram-raid of any cashmere they could get hold of.

 

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