^Good idea. I believe it's been discussed in conjunction with Bulldog's blog. It really is a project we could work on.

I have a question...

Why/when did most sack jackets change their button stance on the 3/2? I have a vintage Brooks tweed sack where the bottom button is aligned with the top of the patch pocket and then spaced about 6" going upward. Creates a nicer fit and a higher roll with (IMO) a better roll. All of the recent Brooks/Press jackets (recent being 3-5 years; the limit of my experience) have a lower stance. Is there a reason for this or is it just an idiosyncracy (sp?) of the style? I believe Tom Rath/Phil is a big proponent of the higher stance and has provided great examples on AAAT.

Thanks for all the PMs regarding The Archive - Our mutually shared collection of Classic Traditional American Style info.

For the moment I'm pulling topics together & creating threads which link to threads in the Wardrobe - The Jazz Connection, Steve McQueen, George Peppard... Things like that.

I'm leaving Horace's work for him to decide where he wants it. It's easy to find if you use the 'Search' function here, but I don't want to start getting above myself and moving things around too much without his say so.

We also have some of our info over on AAAT from the days when we were there - Photos especially. I've linked 'Trad 101' already & anyone else can link anything else that they wish too. Ditto with The Blogs - Link away. We have no rules forbidding the linking of Blogs here.

The idea is to pull together all that we have and make the forum a real resource for all Classic Traditional American style fans however they might describe themselves, Trads included.

Best -

Just to try to respond to the last question. If the clothes are comfortable, useful and durable, you are fine. Always and forever. It's really as simple as that. anything that lasts over 10 years in terms of style and durability. It is never about fashion.
       It is always about frugality. that is New England fashion, which will lead you inevitably to the enduring styles of a nation dedicated to the ideal that every man and women is born equal and each of us will be tolerant of our friends, our neighbors and all of our fellow citizens.
      Some of us had families that came over in the 1600s, some in the 1700s, some in the 1800s. But each and every one of those people was inspired by deeply felt ideals. The newest illegal immigrant from Mexico was motivated by the same ideal as the oldest Mass. 1600 religious refuge. They all aspire to a better, happier, more prosperous life.
      One way to achieve that is to buy some classic clothes that will last and last. then you can spend money on your kids' education in private schools.
     I'm a little bit joking, but not really. tom

OMG: I think I said something iconic. I hope I said something about my country's values. Maybe I should just shut up for a while.
    I always thought the creed was simple. I have always felt it was a nod to the world that used to be and always welcomed the world that is soon to be. I don't doubt for a moment that every new citizen honors his or her heritage. I hope that every color and creed in this vast expansive country some day dresses in tweed.

I'm with you, Brownie.

Tom always types from the heart.

JOA wrote:

^Good idea. I believe it's been discussed in conjunction with Bulldog's blog. It really is a project we could work on.

I have a question...

Why/when did most sack jackets change their button stance on the 3/2? I have a vintage Brooks tweed sack where the bottom button is aligned with the top of the patch pocket and then spaced about 6" going upward. Creates a nicer fit and a higher roll with (IMO) a better roll. All of the recent Brooks/Press jackets (recent being 3-5 years; the limit of my experience) have a lower stance. Is there a reason for this or is it just an idiosyncracy (sp?) of the style? I believe Tom Rath/Phil is a big proponent of the higher stance and has provided great examples on AAAT.

It varies from maker to maker and time period to time period.  There is no 'period authentic' button stance.  I have a three or 4 vintage sacks with the stance as you describe.  But I also have some others where the stance is lower.  I like the high roll as well.
Here's a Wash n' Wear Brooks sack with the stance you describe.  It's 'vintage' (if you consider the 70s-80s vintage, which I don't)

Last edited by bandofoutsiders (2008-07-11 03:26:34)

I think that 'Buckskin' is the origin.

J.

I was wondering about the American use of the word "Oxford" in reference to shoes.

In Europe we usually call the formal shoes with enclosed lacing "Oxfords". Shoes with open lacing are usually called "Derby". In America there might be a different terminology. I have often seen Bucks or Bluchers for example being referred to as "Oxfords". 

I'm not sure if this was by mistake, or if that's the general American use of the word.

Can someone explain this to me, please!

Thanks! Maybe this Oxford/ Derby juxtaposition is a typical German thing, maybe a misunderstanding of British terms?

Any idea, about "Gibsons"? Something similar to bluchers?

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

Thanks! Maybe this Oxford/ Derby juxtaposition is a typical German thing, maybe a misunderstanding of British terms?

Any idea, about "Gibsons"? Something similar to bluchers?

'Gibsons' - as sold in the Squire shop and Ivy shop in 1969/70 - were like the plain caps but with an apron and a split toe. A fairly discrete split toe.

Not like the shoes where the split goes half way up the vamp. So not really like the Norwegian thing and certainly no hand-sewn element in the apron.

JS introduced them some time after the plain cap/flat tops(bluchers in American ?) and wing tips were well established.

Of course, Gibson might really be another thing entirely, but all those Ivy shop shoes had a name you could easily identify them by. The name seemed to describe a shoe style as opposed to a given name from the makers(Savile, Sutton, Leeds, MacNeil etc.) .

Dempsey - What was the interior of The Ivy Shop in Richmond like when you knew the place?

In '87 when I knew it it was full of Viyella and Cords. Bass, Sebago, Grenson, and  Timberland were displayed on the central shoe table back then. Socks were by Burligton & belts were by Canterbury. There were Geofrey Scott BDs at the rear of the shop and the jackets were mainly by Parkes (sp?) I think. Some Scottish heavy-gauge shawl-collared knitwear was down the front of the shop in murky shades. It had quite an Anglo vibe at that point. Later it was to have a re-fit & the shoes were to come more to the fore. How was it when you knew it?
The original shop has been described as being in the 'New England' style with bare boards on the floor (it was all carpet in my day). Was it still that way when you knew it?

Thanks -

J.

Another quick question:

Who makes the best shirt to wear with a collar pin?  A lot would depend, I guess, on how the collar is made.  Some might be too long, or too wide.  I've never really worn a pin, but I like the look.