Russell_Street wrote:

the style councillor wrote:

...
1/Only London has Suss - What a load of unadulterated, sycophantic bollox...., end of.

1/  I think Suss is a London word - Probably I'm wrong as I'm very bad with slang. My Northern chums use the word 'Nous' which I think is similar in some way (maybe?)

..

Its an eskimo word (like parka) in fact. I did learn something at school!!!

The innits said if you were good at fending off polar bears and recognising bad weather you were "sus"

Last edited by absolute beginner (2008-08-28 09:51:50)

absolute beginner wrote:

Russell_Street wrote:

the style councillor wrote:

...
1/Only London has Suss - What a load of unadulterated, sycophantic bollox...., end of.

1/  I think Suss is a London word - Probably I'm wrong as I'm very bad with slang. My Northern chums use the word 'Nous' which I think is similar in some way (maybe?)

..

Its an eskimo word (like parka) in fact. I did learn something at school!!!

The innits said if you were good at fending off polar bears and recognising bad weather you were "sus"

Fascinating stuff!

Doesn't Mr. Barnes quickly talk about the early Modernists (Not the later "Mods") in his book "Mods!" and uses the words 'Jewish', 'Middle-Class' & 'Homosexual'?

My copy is up in the attic and if you had a back like mine you wouldn't wish me to got tottering up a ladder at this time in the evening to check on these things.

The Myth Of 'Mod' is very working class and I suspect that 'Mod' in reality probably was. The earlier Modernism was something a bit different though. And I've heard that they didn't wear parkas either...

Modernism has always been a lot more diverse than some people like to think. Stylists, Individualists, Beat Mods, Hard Mods etc. Even some of the early Skins considered themselves Mods ( they perhaps disliked the tag that was later applied to the cult ). I've mentioned before that it also depended on just exactly where you were from which influenced the chosen style, which shops were situated in the neighbourhood etc . Backgrounds would obviously come into it also. I can see why certain people would have disliked the semi-intellectual side of it, but I happen to like that aspect too ( being a fervent reader ). Original thinkers would most certainly add to the development of any little movement I'd say although they are very likely to move on once it has become a true movement. Such is the way of Modernism or at least what I consider to be the real thing
Oh, during the 90s there was this thing called Adidas Mod in London...another media tag, but I like it all the same as it's about kids carrying the torch. All of this next to those older Stylists who returned to more classic themes after years of experimenting. There is a logic to be found there...

Last edited by Alex Roest (2008-08-29 04:13:49)

formby wrote:

I've 'sussed' out this 'sussed' lark and I'm 'sussed' enough to know that I'm not 'sussed' Now, that's sussed!!!!!

My head hurts.....

A symptom of excessive suss fuss.

At last I've got Formby over here!

My evil plan has worked!

I think 'sussed' has many synonyms. Savvy, nous, clued-up, streetwise....to name but a few.

the style councillor wrote:

Ahhhhhh, I do believe I have found a kindred spirit, jesmond! What looks ok on someone else might not be my cup of tea, [i.e. the brogues ballinger thread] and I will say so, but that's not to say I expect that person to stop wearing them on my, or anybody else's say so! My outlook is this: If you like, you buy - you wear? The problems arise [IMO] when you put yourself on public forums but then whinge if and when the flack flies. if you don't like the flack, don't post your pics [complete with your clock] for all the world to see and then take the comments all so precious and personal?
For instance, today, I have just been to a business meeting with a very, very wealthy man in a knitted short sleeved three buttoned [grey with red & black piping] limited edition Fred Perry, a pair of black Giorgio Armani needle cords sat flush [no puckering at all in the leg, my pet hate!] on top of my Oxblood Russell & Bromley tassled loafers [£65 in the sale] with blood red pantherella socks. My outfit definetly cost more than his cheap off the peg ill fitted suit, shirt, tie and shoes, but that's another argument for a different day] Now I don't give a flying you know what if he didn't like my attire and I don't get the contract because of it. What you see is what you get and I make no excuses for it. I do not bow or scrape before any man. In fact, I would rather swing from a tree than have someone dictate to me what I should wear [you are free to comment all you like about my sartorial eloquence, but it will make not a jot of difference to me or change my mind], because once they start on your clothing they are effectively telling you how to live. I know full well who I am and what I've got, and no one will change that.

The outfit you mentioned might have been cooler and it might have been more expensive, but you do realize that it wasn't a business outfit?

A business outfit is really simple:

A dark suit (blue or grey), a white shirt, an elegant tie and black shoes...

It's the rules, I didn't make them. It doesn't matter what your clothes cost, you just have to stick to the rules. You might be wearing the most expensive bespoke shirt with cufflinks as big as jaybirds eggs- if you wear it untucked, the guy with the cheap supermarket shirt worn correctly is more likely to get the job... This is generalising, of course... There are certain professions, that have other rules, especially the so-called "creative jobs", I am thinking about ponytailed advertising executives in Giorgio Armani leather jackets, and there's also the business casusal environments in the New Economy sector, the IT crowd....

The suit should be a solid navy or charcoal, maybe mid-grey, pinstripes or chalkstripes are also fine, if they are not too loud. You can also get away a lighter grey and on the continent black and brown are also acceptable, but I figure that they will still raise eyebrows in the UK. So, at least for job interviews and really important business situations, I suggest you stick to the conventional SR colour choices. However, since this is an Ivy forum, I have to stress, that the rules seem to be a bit more relaxed in the US traditionally with olive and khaki. As far as I know, even seersucker was a legitimate business choice for summer, but I guess for job interviews Americans probably will not be very flamboyant either....

Single breasted 2-piece suits are standard nowadays. Both 2 buttons and 3 buttons are OK, everything else will be noted as extravagant.

I have worn mohair, though not for a job interview, but in general I would give the advice to stick to worsted wool in general and just don't wear anything flash...

Just last week I had a customer on the phone for half an hour who was joking about my colleague's slim cut trousers. He said they were so tight that you could see that he was wearing his dick at the right hand side...



A white shirt, it's very simple, you can also take a very pale blue with a blue suit, but white is always the best choice. No matter what others say, I would be careful with pink. At least for a job interview.

You have more choices of colour and pattern with the tie. Stripes, dots, paisley, foulard and solids of course. I'd be careful with certain motif ties. Avoid 1" ties!!! Avoid bow ties.


Black shoes is also just a business standard. Keep it plain and simple is the best advise. Lace-ups are the best, loafers and boots are dangerous. Sneakers, even the smartest ones are definitely VERBOTEN. I guess, even chunky American brogues, long wings are fine, too, and most people will like them, but the safest choice is the plain- cap balmoral oxford.


Oh, and you should wear underwear!;-) Sockless might be dangerous for a job interview. The open neckOCBD/ T-shirt thing is very cool, but you should be able to wear that tie for the interview. People don't like to see T-shirts show under the collar, so wifebeaters or thing under the shirt might be better... Don't tuck the shirt inside the pants, I mean inside the briefs or boxers...

If you want to be a rebel, break any of those rules, but don't expect to get the job!


As far as I understand "sussed" means something similar to the original meaning of "hip" (before there were "hippies")... talking about clothes it can be something like "smart", "sharp", "cutting edge" or even "classic", but it also implies a correct choice made (time, place, situation etc...) 

I'm sorry, if this sounds all too much like iGent rules and stuff! I hate this and I know that this forum was born to get away from all this nonsense. Job interviews is a totally different thing. I'm an HR consultant, so this is part of my job. These are no made up rules, at least I didn't make them up. It's just the business standards...


Anyway, you must have been really convincing if you got the contract! Good Luck!

Last edited by Hard Bop Hank (2008-08-31 20:32:53)

Alex Roest wrote:

nice one Hank....sussed in general as well as within a business context will surely mean one knows how to dress for business situations. It's all about dressing perfectly for whatever occasion after all.

The hard thing might be when you won't be able to change your outfit during the day and you'll have e.g. a few important business meetings, a meal in some fancy restaurant ( perhaps w/a lady you fancy ) followed by a visit to some 'hip' club....now what would you wear in that case ?

Wow, Alex, that's a tough assignment! I would probably choose a straight business like outfit, because you can always say: "I had an important meeting this afternoon and didn't get home!" That will be fine at the restaurant as well as in the club. However, you couldn't tell your clients: "Oh, I am going to this hip club, that's why I wear this groovy paisley shirt... don't I look well hung in those hipsters? So you've never seen corduroy shoes?"

A dark blue suit or a grey suit are fine for daytime and for evening wear, I wouldn't wear pinstripes as they say business suit and this might be too square for  your nightclub. Midnight Blue on the other hand is a little dangerous because it's traditionally only for the evenings, so a lighter navy would be best for both business and lounge suits.

If the tie you chose was too stolid, or the club is very casual, you could still get rid of the tie, or you could loosen it a little...

Don't wear a tie clip! They are out of fashion and many people think they are "prissy". If you made a good knot, your tie will lie flatly, anyway.

There was this talk on the wardrobe forum about hankies as the new ties. Don't believe it! You can not expect your future boss, or an important new client to read GQ! The tie is important! It doesn't have to be a 7-fold or something, but you just have to wear one. A nice silk hanky or a linen pocket square might be a plus, but they are not necessary. You don't need French cuffs either, not even for CEO positions. People will never frown upon your modesty, but it's dangerous, if you make the impression that you want to outsmarten your superiors.

If you apply for a job and you know it's a very casual environment, you can dress casusally as well, but no one will think that you are overdressed, if you wore a suit. After all, it's business and people will appreciate the effort you made.

If you are sure about dressing casually, go for it! Personally, I like the Fred Perry polo, but I still remember, about 10 years ago, some people thought I was a Nazi for wearing these "skinhead" labels... I still wear them, even to the office, but never for a meeting with a customer. We have these rules and I don't see why I should break them. I can make nonconformist choices in my spare time, but business is about making money. You represent a company, when you meet a customer, so there is not much room for self expression, IMO...

Good call Hank and since you've taken the trouble to answer my loose question I'll do the same. I'd probably opt for black shoes, a bit more fashionable than you suggested, but only ever so slightly, plum formal knee socks, suit in a lighter navy indeed ( slim silhouette ), Italian 2 B, high collar shirt in a marble like pink that seems to be accepted on the continent ( for business ), no French cuffs, paisly hankey ( which could be put in inside pocket for meeting, if necessary). Black belt and watch with black leather strap and tidy hair. Should do the trick I think, would work for me anyway....cheers,

A

P.S. Depending on weather 3/4 length lightweight, off white mac optional too.

Alex Roest wrote:

Good call Hank and since you've taken the trouble to answer my loose question I'll do the same. I'd probably opt for black shoes, a bit more fashionable than you suggested, but only ever so slightly, plum formal knee socks, suit in a lighter navy indeed ( slim silhouette ), Italian 2 B, high collar shirt in a marble like pink that seems to be accepted on the continent ( for business ), no French cuffs, paisly hankey ( which could be put in inside pocket for meeting, if necessary). Black belt and watch with black leather strap and tidy hair. Should do the trick I think, would work for me anyway....cheers,

A

P.S. Depending on weather 3/4 length lightweight, off white mac optional too.

Yes, that's probably a very smart outfit for both business meetings and for cool nightclubs. Pink is indeed accepted on the continent and if it's a bright pink it's a very masculine colour. When I said you should go for white shirts, I was merely talking about job interviews...

Alex Roest wrote:

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

When I said you should go for white shirts, I was merely talking about job interviews...

Of course....for a job interview I'd wear a white semi-spread collar shirt with French cuffs ( subtle cuff links, obviously ) and a subtle, but expensive tie. As a 'take it or leave' it sort of statement I do wear a hanky too. I'm a confident sort of man after all

A

Yes, that's fine! You can always make that "take it or leave it" statement, if you are dressed correctly! Understatement is cool, but don't be afraid to be overdressed for a job interview! You can always dress down later on!

The semi-spread collar is also the best choice you can make for this occasion!

Cheers, HBH

Alex Roest wrote:

Basically I think 'suss' has very little to do with 'Mod' as such because after all that was just a ( 60s ) concept. I've mentioned in the past I can't take that whole 'lifestyle' attitude seriously from anyone over, say, 25 for that matter calling themselves Mods ( or whatever ). It's just a hobby slightly outside of the ordinary I find, nothing too special really. I love the whole idea of Mod mind you, but it should be read in spirit and not to the letter, that's where the true clued up thing would appear now wouldn't it ?

No offence meant to anyone, but that's always been how I see it....

That's spot on to me. Modernists had (and have) suss but it's not exclusive. It's definitely a 'city' thing. New York I suspect has it's own version. Like all subcultural things, 'mod' has levels of interpretation that can be so broad as to be useless. It's like Pete Waterman describing himself as being a punk because he put two fingers up at the music industry.

And don't get me started on 'lifestyle'.

Many thanks for all the tips on how one should dress for business, but seeing as the contract is in the bag, I'll gleefully add in passing that "Rules are for fools and sheep :-)