You are not logged in.
#1 2009-05-17 03:30:16
- Ian Strachan's Raincoat
- Member
- Posts: 521
Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
All right, Paddy denies there was such a thing as 'London Ivy': most eyes were upon New York City. And I think that much is clear from reading around the subject. Besides, how could any interest in the Ivy League fail to focus upon the hip capital of the world? There must have been strong emotional ties between Jewish families in England and the United States to begin with, and the appeal of the Promised City (anti-semitic as the United States often was) must have held the strongest appeal.
Speaking of the Ivy Shop, Paddy mentions the differences between those customers who 'mixed and matched' and those who, like himself, went in for a 'unified' Ivy appearance. This approach, as he says, meant you had to spend a fair amount of money. There seems to be a strong post-war story here: guys speak in Paul Gorman's book of the amount of cash you had to spend to make 'top ted'. 'Faces' amongst the original mods sem to have gone out of their way to 'step up the tailoring' in the face of the watering down of the style as 'mod' went wavy. Sartorial elegance amongst a smallish group of men appears to have been a desired norm; the Jewish community in North London, the East End, Soho and elsewhere were often deeply involved in specific trades, including clothing. Think, I guess, Cecil Gee (just to give one example). Paddy's approach had to involve maximum knowledge allied to the ability to dip deep into his pocket. A shirt here, a pair of shoes there was probably the norm: younger lads who were not yet earning enough cash to make the commitment.
We're talking circa 1970 here, at a time when Paddy claims the Ivy look in London was mostly over. What came after - the 'French Look' for instance - seems to have held no appeal whatever: too effeminate, and probably appealing to the more sussed younger lads who had been stylish peanuts in 67/68 (I might be totally at sea on this - Chris? Brideshead?). Now, in 2009, the strictness has mostly disappeared, to be replaced by a rather more 'relaxed' look amongst older men: possibly registering the decline in quality at Brooks, Press and elsewhere. Why, Paddy has hinted, did Brooks have to try and 'improve' their suits? Why indeed? Darts, he says, were an option, though one he preferred to do without.
So, what next? Where do we go from here?
#2 2009-05-17 03:35:21
- Ian Strachan's Raincoat
- Member
- Posts: 521
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
I think these links between London and New York, the roots in European Jewish culture, are worth exploring.
#3 2009-05-17 11:57:12
- Chris_H
- Ivy Original
- From: Watford
- Posts: 1654
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
Last edited by Chris_H (2009-05-17 12:10:14)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/hardyandjohnson/
#4 2009-05-17 15:35:11
- Staceyboy
- Ivy Archivist
- Posts: 936
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
Those pursuing a full and authentic Ivy look circa '70 must have been spending a small fortune on those sartorial articles of faith. That would have really taken some commitment for those not earning pretty good money. The working class guys must have really been under pressure to come up with the components of 'The Look'. I take my hat off to them. Further observations by Paddy would be extremely welcome.
Staceyboy
http://thetownoutside.tumblr.com
#5 2009-05-18 01:11:50
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
Some very good stuff coming out here.
Do we maybe have a split between fashion & style on the horizon?
I see Chris_H as young and fashionable in an 'in the know' way back in the day. Always moving on in London.
Dear old Pad, whilst a London boy too, has said that NYC was what it was all about for him. London fashions changed but he was looking elsewhere. Maybe?
My profound thanks to ISR for getting Paddy to open up like this. There is stuff on his recent threads which even I've never heard before from P.
#7 2009-05-18 09:37:32
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
... My use of language always lets me down...
Various styles come in and out of fashion - Ivy as a fashion came and went, but Ivy as a 'style' was also there. If you didn't wear Ivy as a fashion then what did you wear it as? I'm not sure I know the proper word.
Best -
#10 2009-05-18 11:49:50
- Ian Strachan's Raincoat
- Member
- Posts: 521
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
It hurts me to know just how much we've lost.
#11 2009-05-18 11:51:15
- Chris_H
- Ivy Original
- From: Watford
- Posts: 1654
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
In the 60's 70's and 80's Ivy was always expensive to the UK purchaser and only really become really affordable to all after the advent of the internet, ebay and the two dollar pound.
Austins and later the John Simons shops were always very pricey and the RL and Gant ivy-style stuff was never cheap in the 80's. I used to wait for the sales and buy sparingly.
I first flew to New York in 1986 by People Express at £100 return! The pound was fairly weak back then and the clothes in Brooks Brothers were frustratingly beyond my means.
Two years later I took the kids to Disneyworld in Orlando. While we were there I found a local outlet mall on International Drive. There were outlets for all the names........Dexter, Bass, Sebago, Florsheim, Bostonian, Ducks Head, Dickies, London Fog, Izod and Van Heusen all at really cheap prices.
We returned the next year to find they had been joined by Gant and Brooks Brothers.
We took vacations in Florida on a regular basis over the next couple of years and I manged to get my Ivy fix every year at very reasonable prices.
Since then we have returned to the US many times visiting many places and picking up stuff when I can.
Last edited by Chris_H (2009-05-18 11:52:16)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/hardyandjohnson/
#13 2009-05-19 09:33:55
- Ian Strachan's Raincoat
- Member
- Posts: 521
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
Paddy has spoken of young Jewish males using their extensive family-business connections (including friends in the diamond trade) to fund certain purchases. Inexpensive Ivy, as Chris says, is probably a product of the Internet revolution, a phenomenon that Paddy - and quite possibly John Simons - are wary of. Mind you, the advent of the home computer hasn't prevented men in the UK from dressing badly, now, has it?
#14 2010-08-02 10:03:52
- Rip Rig & Panic
- Member
- Posts: 4697
Re: Paddy and the 'unified' look in London Ivy circles
Bump: to the Patrick Nahman thread.