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#1 2010-03-31 23:10:47

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

l visited a shoe factory over lunch time, it is the main factory in Victoria for repairing goodyear welted, blake-rapid, and blake stitched shoos; they do many of the repair jobs for the top end shoe retailers and have been doing so for decades.

Without being prompted, the bloke starting talking about how goodyear welted shoes were nice but had a major construction fault with regards to gemming failure (his exact words). He said that it was quite common for older goodyear shoos (8 years +) to have the glued on feather come unstuck; he said it didn't matter how good the reputed shoe was, they all had that weakness.

Not everyone is going to have that problem, everyone has individual feet, walk differently and treat their shoes differently. With some people the welt might open up alittle and there may even be a small hole in the sole which goes un noticed for a while, and if there is water and salt on the ground it will work it's way to the gemming and cause it to eventually fail (assuming the upper doesn't fail first). The factory repairer said he is always repairing failed gemming by gluing it back and restitching the welt to the fastener by hand. He said blake-rapid is a much superior construction.

Whether you have Edward Green or Grenson, all these gemmed shoes have this construction weakness.

l'm just sick of all these know-it-all igents who think they always know better than industry people. The fellow over at Style Forum has been involved in footwear for about 50 years, he's obviously seen alot, but that counts for nothing apparently. He has stated that he has repaired many shoos where the gemming has failed (why would he need to lie?), but apparently that counts for nothing. We even have church ministers who never owned goodyear welted footwear before the forums, they used to wear tennis shoos, yet these people come across like they are shoo experts and know better than industry people. WAKE UP!!!

l saw a couple of dozen goodyear shoos in need of repair, many had holes in the soles and welts coming adrift where water can seep in and ruin the gemming. lt's no wonder that gemming failure is so common. This place wasn't just a shoe repairer, it was a factory that repairs dozens of pairs each week. l think that says it all.

l-gents think they know it all, but they don't! lt's no wonder many industry people refuse to get involved...too many egotystical i-morons would wanna beat them down.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bloke l spoke to said he knows another man who makes shoos completely by hand; he is going to do some research and get back to me. l find that some of the best shoemakers in Melbourne are the ones who don't advertise, they need to be found (they don't need to advertise, they have a reputation and have been around a long time).

Last edited by The_Shooman (2010-04-01 02:22:13)

 

#2 2010-04-01 10:42:47

fritzl
Member
From: Gmunden, Salzkammergut/Austria
Posts: 849

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!


"I'd give all the Champagne I've ever drunk to be playing alongside him(Eric Cantona) in a big European match at Old Trafford." George Best(1946 -2005)

 

#3 2010-04-01 21:10:02

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

No need to worry, let it stay here.

 

#4 2010-04-02 07:11:16

Big Tony
Member
Posts: 5478

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

I have always thought that the goodyear welting construction is probably too complex. One could say that it is popular because Mr Goodyear invented a machine to do the job, but then a machine was invented to do blake/rapide as well.


"What sort of post-apocalyptic deathscape is this?"
"I don't want to look like a cock hungry sailor after all !!!"
"When it comes to infidelity, broken families, and reckless fatherhood, the underclass are amateurs."

 

#5 2010-04-09 01:36:52

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

Last edited by The_Shooman (2010-04-09 01:37:22)

 

#6 2010-12-07 19:18:16

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

Another problem with `gemming' is that the insole that it's attached to often curls up with old age and makes applying failed gemming very difficult a second time around. When gemming is re-applied it will often not stick well because of the old curled up insole, it has a tendency to pull off.

Remember: gemming can fail after 8 years. Other repair workshops i've spoken to report gemming failure also, it's not unusual. lmagine paying $2,000 for John Lobb rtw only to have them wrecked after 8 years, it might not happen, but there is a decent possibility that it could. Why pay big money for gemmed shoos and take that gamble.

 

#7 2010-12-07 19:20:49

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

l'm currently putting salt on my Florsheims so the gemming will come off. When it comes off i'm going to re-apply it and stitch the welt back to the gemming. smile

Last edited by The_Shooman (2010-12-07 19:21:26)

 

#8 2011-02-13 23:26:23

meister
Member
Posts: 1141

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

Gemming further explained by an expert cordwainer

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=153269

 

#9 2011-02-14 10:16:19

isshinryu101
Member
Posts: 641

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

Best to stick to norvegese, bentivegna, guyser & the like, I think.  They LOOK like tough, rugged shoes that will last a lifetime... and they are.

 

#10 2011-02-14 11:02:25

Big Tony
Member
Posts: 5478

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!


"What sort of post-apocalyptic deathscape is this?"
"I don't want to look like a cock hungry sailor after all !!!"
"When it comes to infidelity, broken families, and reckless fatherhood, the underclass are amateurs."

 

#11 2011-02-14 14:43:05

meister
Member
Posts: 1141

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

 

#12 2011-02-14 14:52:27

isshinryu101
Member
Posts: 641

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

 

#13 2011-02-17 19:22:16

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

 

#14 2011-02-18 01:25:22

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6159

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

shooey - what do you think of Harolds - they have a small showroom at their Fairfield factory. I've called in

http://www.haroldboot.com.au/constr

 

#15 2011-02-18 07:51:09

Axel Ferguson
Member
Posts: 72

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

As far as I can tell the insole is stitched to the sole, so that would exclude gemming.

"Mid-Sole blake stitched (internally sewn) to base of boot right through to leather insole."

But then there is this:

"One piece leather upper cement lasted to butt leather insole which has poron laminated to it for extra comfort."

I guess they cement the upper to the insole for easier processing? Because I can't imagine them stitching all the sole pieces and then just cementing the upper.

Edit: They say this in the description of the leather soled Grazier boot, "Butt Leather Mid-Sole is then laminated and blake stitched (machine Sewn) through upper to the Insole."

Last edited by Axel Ferguson (2011-02-18 07:57:21)

 

#16 2011-02-18 10:15:05

isshinryu101
Member
Posts: 641

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

 

#17 2011-02-18 16:53:23

Big Tony
Member
Posts: 5478

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!


"What sort of post-apocalyptic deathscape is this?"
"I don't want to look like a cock hungry sailor after all !!!"
"When it comes to infidelity, broken families, and reckless fatherhood, the underclass are amateurs."

 

#18 2011-02-18 18:52:09

wrigglez
Member
Posts: 99

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

For me, gemming is deceptive, saying a shoe is Goodyear welted gives the impression that it is sturdy and strong in construction when in reality then entire sole is held on by a strip of canvas (leather if you’re lucky, eg. EG Top Draw have the option i believe) glued to more than likely, particle board. Yes they can be easily repaired but that’s beside the point. When you’re looking at EG, JL ect. they really should have a better central construction than glue and canvas.

 

#19 2011-02-18 20:45:33

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

Last edited by The_Shooman (2011-02-18 22:25:18)

 

#20 2011-02-18 21:17:45

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

 

#21 2011-02-18 21:54:33

The_Shooman
A pretty face
From: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 13179

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

Last edited by The_Shooman (2011-02-18 21:55:49)

 

#22 2013-10-29 14:20:32

LuLu
New member
Posts: 1

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

Probably too old this line, but as I've only just found it, I would like to say I agree with this guy: http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2013/04/mythbuster-gemming-is-bad.html. There's some exageration going on here! I'm sure all my (Northamptonshire - because that's where I come from) Goodyear welted shoes are made with the gemming technique, but I've never had any problems with any of them, and they don't stay in the cupboard either. Cheaneys, Trickers, C&J, Sanders, Barkers, the French Heschung, etc. As an example, I recently took a pair of Trickers brogues back for resoling. Bought in 1978, I've hiked in them in muddy conditions, over Dartmoor, worked picking grapes in France, soaked them in Neatsfoot oil, got them totally soaked through, and after 34 years finally the Commando soles started to show slight hairline cracks. Like to buy some made with an insole feather though...........

Last edited by LuLu (2013-10-29 14:22:18)

 

#23 2013-10-30 10:25:02

Oldfruit1
Member
Posts: 531

Re: Gemming failure in good-year welted shoos - it's all true!

that's why you shouldn't bother wasting your money on high end RTW shoes, cap it at realistically £400 I would say. that way if they last about 5-10 years you've expended about ~£40 to 80 a year max on a pair of shoes. jl & eg is like having a Toyota engine inside a Rolls Royce body and paying an equivalent price in between the two cars for the privilege.

Last edited by Oldfruit1 (2013-10-30 10:25:34)

 
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