I was called low life among other things by the good bishop and NJS for misspelling words, but come on, if you can't spell Savile Row, don't start a thread with it in the title.

g- wrote:

Gilgamesh you seem to have lots of knowledge on scents, amongst other things, what are the good sources for information?

Well it's a lot like learning about clothing - you can get a lot of information online, but you have to sort the truth from the delusional crap. This is definitely the case at Basenotes.net, which combines a semi-useful cologne database with a discussion board that makes Styleforum look like the Institute for Advanced Study. You get the impression that Styleforum is filled with nasty, frustrated college graduates, while Basenotes collects people who seem, to put it mildly, none too bright.

The other problem with trying to learn about colognes is that the discussion often goes off in useless directions - on the one hand people start talking about art and moonbeams and transports of ecstasy, and in some cases they attempt to read detailed narratives in their colognes; on the other hand the familiar nerd mania of classifying and jargonizing emerges, and you get people screaming at one another over the internet about the difference between classical and aromatic fougeres. Neither approach really matters since with colognes you can pretty much just smell them and tell instantly whether you like them or not, and this is the whole of the "appreciation" process, at least for the non-crazy. A few really good fragrances require repeated wearing before you "get" them, but there are also plenty of instantly pleasing scents out there.

I found the least bullshitty cologne resource is Luca Turin and Tania Sanchez's book Perfumes, which has a few short introductory essays and then a few hundred fragrance reviews (avoid books by the lucky moron Chandler Burr). Both authors verge into wanky self-indulgence every now and again (Turin casually drops irrelevant anecdotes about his family's enormous wealth and his love of small airplanes, and Sanchez gets pretty fruity in some of her descriptions) but they're both excellent writers, and some of the reviews are tart short-form prose masterpieces. The book is actually readable and even entertaining as a book, although it's presented as a reference. I don't agree with a few of their reviews, but most of the time their judgment is accurate. They gleefully repeat the much-cited truism that in colognes there is less correspondence between price and quality than in almost any other field. They award their highest endorsements to plenty of sub-$50 fragrances.

If you browse through the book you'll get an idea of the history and style of fragrances, and you'll probably develop a short list of fragrances that you'd like to try. Learning to understand colognes is kind of like learning about wine or clothes - it seems simple at first but there are details that emerge as you get more educated. Fortunately colognes are a rather shallow pool: there are not many details, and understanding them just requires spending a lot of time sniffing your arm. There's no real need to learn theory or taxonomy at all - who cares if a particular scent is a chypre or fougere?

Short answer: fuck learning, just get big bottles of Guerlain Vetiver, Azzaro pour Homme, Caron pour un Homme, Kouros, Antaeus, and Chanel Pour Monsieur (super-secret Euro version, or Parfum de Nicolai New York, which is about the same). Store in a cool, dark place.

Gilgamesh2003 wrote:

g- wrote:

Gilgamesh you seem to have lots of knowledge on scents, amongst other things, what are the good sources for information?

Well it's a lot like learning about clothing - you can get a lot of information online, but you have to sort the truth from the delusional crap. This is definitely the case at Basenotes.net, which combines a semi-useful cologne database with a discussion board that makes Styleforum look like the Institute for Advanced Study. You get the impression that Styleforum is filled with nasty, frustrated college graduates, while Basenotes collects people who seem, to put it mildly, none too bright.

The other problem with trying to learn about colognes is that the discussion often goes off in useless directions - on the one hand people start talking about art and moonbeams and transports of ecstasy, and in some cases they attempt to read detailed narratives in their colognes; on the other hand the familiar nerd mania of classifying and jargonizing emerges, and you get people screaming at one another over the internet about the difference between classical and aromatic fougeres. Neither approach really matters since with colognes you can pretty much just smell them and tell instantly whether you like them or not, and this is the whole of the "appreciation" process, at least for the non-crazy. A few really good fragrances require repeated wearing before you "get" them, but there are also plenty of instantly pleasing scents out there.

I found the least bullshitty cologne resource is Luca Turin and Tania Sanchez's book Perfumes, which has a few short introductory essays and then a few hundred fragrance reviews (avoid books by the lucky moron Chandler Burr). Both authors verge into wanky self-indulgence every now and again (Turin casually drops irrelevant anecdotes about his family's enormous wealth and his love of small airplanes, and Sanchez gets pretty fruity in some of her descriptions) but they're both excellent writers, and some of the reviews are tart short-form prose masterpieces. The book is actually readable and even entertaining as a book, although it's presented as a reference. I don't agree with a few of their reviews, but most of the time their judgment is accurate. They gleefully repeat the much-cited truism that in colognes there is less correspondence between price and quality than in almost any other field. They award their highest endorsements to plenty of sub-$50 fragrances.

If you browse through the book you'll get an idea of the history and style of fragrances, and you'll probably develop a short list of fragrances that you'd like to try. Learning to understand colognes is kind of like learning about wine or clothes - it seems simple at first but there are details that emerge as you get more educated. Fortunately colognes are a rather shallow pool: there are not many details, and understanding them just requires spending a lot of time sniffing your arm. There's no real need to learn theory or taxonomy at all - who cares if a particular scent is a chypre or fougere?

Short answer: fuck learning, just get big bottles of Guerlain Vetiver, Azzaro pour Homme, Caron pour un Homme, Kouros, Antaeus, and Chanel Pour Monsieur (super-secret Euro version, or Parfum de Nicolai New York, which is about the same). Store in a cool, dark place.

Gilgamesh,

As always, thanks for taking the time.  I like the Chanel Pour Monsieur--didn't know about the Euro super secret.  I will get book to start.  Cheers.

Here's the secret European Chanel Pour Monsieur:
http://us.strawberrynet.com/mens-fragra … 50/#DETAIL

Strawberrynet is some kind of Asian perfume-mongery and they are completely trustworthy, although in this case they are making you pay far out the ass for some reason. The story with the two Pour Monsieurs is: in America Chanel sells only Pour Monsieur Concentree, which is not exactly a concentrated version of Pour Monsieur. It's a different formulation, much sweeter and simpler than Pour Monsieur non-Concentree. Both versions are very good, really, but the European one is slightly better. Luca Turin gets into a tizzy and claims that the American version is foul-smelling slop for fat stupid babies with bad taste, but I think on this particular point he's overstating things.

fxh, the original Kouros is the one to go for, in the white bottle. Some find it totally repulsive and claim that it smells like a sweaty public bathroom in, like, Jakarta, but I am not one of these people. It is very strong and comes on with a weird, dense blast of incense and honey that sometimes does smell like a urinal cake, but this subsides. There are also millions of weird spinoff editions of Kouros, like Kouros Summer Fun Explosion or Kouros Tattoo Edition (this one actually exists), and these are OK but not as good as the main line (some people prefer them because they are lighter and fresher). There's also Body Kouros, an extremely sweet anise-based cologne that has almost nothing to do with the original. It's not bad either.

One thing I have found in my career in weirdo perfume-fondling is that it's almost always smarter to get a small bottle. Usually they offer 50ml and 100ml bottles, and the 100ml almost never costs twice as much as the 50ml. But it takes a normal person a year or longer to go through 50ml of cologne, if he uses it every day.

^We can always count on Gilgamesh to give erudite and interesting responses.

Penhaligon's offer a 500ml bottle Blenheim Bouquet, that's well over a decade of use, if it stays fresh for that long. I've a couple of 100ml's of the Penhaligon's Hammam and English Fern which are still three quarters full and I've had them in use for around three years now.

The Basenotes demographic never fails in their delivery of staid synthetic critiques totally devoid of literary pretenses. One would think their forum would be sprayed liberally with gushing if not gutsy dandy wordsmiths just oozing with flowery peacock librettos ascending to Wagnerian heights in eulogy to their favourite vetivers and extract of West Indian limes. If ever there was a forum that would benefit from an extra splash or two of high camp and a bottle of Capote prose style and umpa-lumpa joie de vivre, then Basenotes is it. This is the caliber of most of the postings, just some good old boys who would be more at home having a Bud and discussing First Blood Part II:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89DDue6s8Kc

If I was a perfumer, I would have hoped for a different kind of appreciative audience for my art and craft. In saying that, as a shareholder, I would want these kind of dudes buying my product.

Penhaligon's play on being traditionally English and the original founder's heritage, and as per Creed, there is some marketing spin in this, as its really just a name revived, although they did have the original scent notes of William Penhaligon. But it was a never a company in continual operation. They do some classics though, and the Blenheim Bouquet has been part of my cologne collection since aroud '87 and as soon as I run out, I always miss it and want somemore. It is the cologne for all seasons.

4F Hepcat wrote:

^We can always count on Gilgamesh to give erudite and interesting responses.

I'm sure it's valuable information, but I'm a bit confused by the depth of interest in this topic. I don't know any men who wear scents and have never met any in a business situation or socially. Odd stuff.

formby wrote:

Jesus, Kouros, Now that's an 80's power scent. I've always preferred vetiver and citrus dominated scents myself.

There's quite a few aftershaves that are damned to be forever associated with the '80's like listening to Kajagoogoo or Hazy Fantazy, along with Kouros, Paco Rabanne and Fahreinheit. Everyone was wearing them to the point of ad infinitum. The mere whiff and one is either lost in nostalgia or a feeling that the wearer is of the moldy fig persuasion.

I consider Armani's Gio, the 1990's equivalent. A great fragrance, but too popular for its good and now it reeks last year's model. It hasn't risen above fashion to become a classic.

4F Hepcat wrote:

formby wrote:

Jesus, Kouros, Now that's an 80's power scent. I've always preferred vetiver and citrus dominated scents myself.

There's quite a few aftershaves that are damned to be forever associated with the '80's like listening to Kajagoogoo or Hazy Fantazy, along with Kouros, Paco Rabanne and Fahreinheit. Everyone was wearing them to the point of ad infinitum. The mere whiff and one is either lost in nostalgia or a feeling that the wearer is of the moldy fig persuasion.

I consider Armani's Gio, the 1990's equivalent. A great fragrance, but too popular for its good and now it reeks last year's model. It hasn't risen above fashion to become a classic.

Some of those 80's scents were quite nice, but they were brewed to be an all-out olfactory assault in most cases.

As I said, I love vetiver scents in autumn/winter and citrus based scents in summer/spring. Very simple.

Now Mrs F....she loves Caron's scents...

4F Hepcat wrote:

Like most interesting things, once you get to a certain understanding and knowledge, you can't rely on the novice buying what you want as a gift.

How true...

Big Tony wrote:

4F Hepcat wrote:

^We can always count on Gilgamesh to give erudite and interesting responses.

I'm sure it's valuable information, but I'm a bit confused by the depth of interest in this topic. I don't know any men who wear scents and have never met any in a business situation or socially. Odd stuff.

Wow.  I missed a lot today.  Gilgamesh is a great resource.  I find his nerdiness on any topic to be one of the great reasons to tune in to FNB.  As to the above, I work in the most conservative area of the world (U.S. midwest) in one of the most conservatuve fields and people are freaked out by anything that has a smell to it of any kind--except for maybe day old Scotch.  (Nothing to special mind you we are corn fed here--WETF that means.) I wear different scents everyday.  I wear them in small enough quantities that only myself and those women I let get close enough know about them.  People are very homophobic.

g- wrote:

Big Tony wrote:

4F Hepcat wrote:

^We can always count on Gilgamesh to give erudite and interesting responses.

I'm sure it's valuable information, but I'm a bit confused by the depth of interest in this topic. I don't know any men who wear scents and have never met any in a business situation or socially. Odd stuff.

Wow.  I missed a lot today.  Gilgamesh is a great resource.  I find his nerdiness on any topic to be one of the great reasons to tune in to FNB.  As to the above, I work in the most conservative area of the world (U.S. midwest) in one of the most conservatuve fields and people are freaked out by anything that has a smell to it of any kind--except for maybe day old Scotch.  (Nothing to special mind you we are corn fed here--WETF that means.) I wear different scents everyday.  I wear them in small enough quantities that only myself and those women I let get close enough know about them.  People are very homophobic.

Your environment is very much like mine -- I have never tried wearing cologne, and really never even encounter the idea outside of seeing the occasional Axe commercial (which I suppose isn't really the same thing and certainly aimed a men far, far younger than myself) or on this forum. I have an old aftershave gel that somebody gave me years ago that I may have used 5 or 6 times at the most.

ajs wrote:

I wish there were some other options. Trumpers is one but I haven’t been in in years which I suppose I should remedy.

I've tried Miller Harris and L'Occitane with some success.

Having said that I can take it or leave it and tend to forget to put it on in the mornings with the result that the bottles pile up.  It then becomes a race to splash it all over and just get through the bottle before it gets too old and loses the scent.