Anotherinterestedobserver's observation is interesting (no pun intended) and on the money.

A jacket is the result of 3 elements: Styling, Cutting, and Tailoring.

You can think of them as 3 circles in a Venn diagram. Cutting lies between Styling and Tailoring and overlaps both. Styling and Tailoring do not overlap.

My perception of the first jacket is that it was tailored very well. It shows the hallmarks of good needlework, ironwork, and fitting practices. Something you very, very seldom see posted online, in the first place.

There were some problems with the cut, but the tailor did a good job with what he had been given to work from. I do not like the styling, and also think it does not suit the wearer, but there's a lot of subjectivity involved. It could have been that one person was responsible for the 3 elements, which isn't right or wrong per se.

Cruz Diez wrote:

There were some problems with the cut...

Could you be more specific here? You've obviously got your head round this. I'd like to know exactly what the problems were that make the wearer look like  a cartoon rooster in a suit.

Last edited by Sammy Ambrose (2011-01-18 09:13:03)

Grossgrain Silk wrote:

Cruz Diez wrote:

Anotherinterestedobserver's observation is interesting (no pun intended) and on the money.

A jacket is the result of 3 elements: Styling, Cutting, and Tailoring.

You can think of them as 3 circles in a Venn diagram. Cutting lies between Styling and Tailoring and overlaps both. Styling and Tailoring do not overlap.

My perception of the first jacket is that it was tailored very well. It shows the hallmarks of good needlework, ironwork, and fitting practices. Something you very, very seldom see posted online, in the first place.

There were some problems with the cut, but the tailor did a good job with what he had been given to work from. I do not like the styling, and also think it does not suit the wearer, but there's a lot of subjectivity involved. It could have been that one person was responsible for the 3 elements, which isn't right or wrong per se.

OK - props to you for not taking the bait.

I understand why you would assume that the tailor didn't suggest the styling and I have no problem with the fact that he did the technical tailoring well. I think the cut is atrocious but, again, it might have been Manton's earnest desire to look like shit.

The issue is whether a tailor should not take some responsibility for the fact that the fit of the garment he has produced is lousy. There is a balance here between martyring yourself and not making a living, and such revolting flattery that you will tell anyone that whatever they want is sublime. I just don't see how a self-respecting tailor could send someone out in that, without at least suggesting that they don't post a picture of themselves wearing it. Manton's self-confidence might be so armour plated as to ignore even that, but I doubt it.

I place less weight on good needlework and so forth than you do. That isn't because those things aren't important but I believe they are less important than fit. I have a summer suit in rangoon which is a right mess inside but looks great on and I am prepared to tolerate the technical deficiencies because - even though it needs pressing more often than an iphone needs charging - it looks smart when it's on. What you call good fitting practices seems to me to be an abandonment of responsibility and craft - it's like Rembrandt painting graffiti on a wall and justifying it on the basis that it's what the customer wanted. You can sort of understand but it's a betrayal of talent.

Of course, all of this assumes that the tailor knew it would look shite. If he really thought he was producing a masterpiece then he is as deluded as his customer.

That I believe is Solito's style. He, is not a Tailor who collaborates, apparently.

Manton, seems looks his best when he wears the tailoring that Raphael makes for him, his other stuff, from whoever, never seems to work as well.

Solito wearing Solito

Last edited by formby (2011-01-18 14:43:44)

Cruz Diez wrote:

Anotherinterestedobserver's observation is interesting (no pun intended) and on the money.

A jacket is the result of 3 elements: Styling, Cutting, and Tailoring.

You can think of them as 3 circles in a Venn diagram. Cutting lies between Styling and Tailoring and overlaps both. Styling and Tailoring do not overlap.

My perception of the first jacket is that it was tailored very well. It shows the hallmarks of good needlework, ironwork, and fitting practices. Something you very, very seldom see posted online, in the first place.

There were some problems with the cut, but the tailor did a good job with what he had been given to work from. I do not like the styling, and also think it does not suit the wearer, but there's a lot of subjectivity involved. It could have been that one person was responsible for the 3 elements, which isn't right or wrong per se.

Cruz,

Have you seen the suit in person, or in more close-up shots in photo? Otherwise how the hell could you tell the needlework or the ironwork was good?

dandysauage wrote:

Cruz Diez wrote:

Anotherinterestedobserver's observation is interesting (no pun intended) and on the money.

A jacket is the result of 3 elements: Styling, Cutting, and Tailoring.

You can think of them as 3 circles in a Venn diagram. Cutting lies between Styling and Tailoring and overlaps both. Styling and Tailoring do not overlap.

My perception of the first jacket is that it was tailored very well. It shows the hallmarks of good needlework, ironwork, and fitting practices. Something you very, very seldom see posted online, in the first place.

There were some problems with the cut, but the tailor did a good job with what he had been given to work from. I do not like the styling, and also think it does not suit the wearer, but there's a lot of subjectivity involved. It could have been that one person was responsible for the 3 elements, which isn't right or wrong per se.

Cruz,

Have you seen the suit in person, or in more close-up shots in photo? Otherwise how the hell could you tell the needlework or the ironwork was good?

I could tell from the shaping and how the front drapes effortlessly. Close-up pics are not helpful in judging these. Nothing beats looking at it in real life, I agree. A patterned cloth would've made it easier to judge from a pic.

He must shop in the Brooks Brothers Boy's department!

Thumbs way down on that pocket square.

formby wrote:

Rubinacci the Elder in Linen...

Thumbs up...or ....Thumbs down...

the shirt, tie, and pants are great; the jacket not so much

I would have thought such an esteemed tailoring house as Ruby would be able to get the shoulders to, er, "fit"...

Big Tony wrote:

formby wrote:

Rubinacci the Elder in Linen...

Thumbs up...or ....Thumbs down...

the shirt, tie, and pants are great; the jacket not so much

I would have thought such an esteemed tailoring house as Ruby would be able to get the shoulders to, er, "fit"...

In terms of the specific style he makes they do fit. I don't like the drop shoulder either but it isn't a mistake.

A rather "puffy" look. The sleeves of my shirts are better done.

The shirt collar is too low, there's no room for the tie knot.

Down. Pinchy waist makes it look like womenswear (and exaggerates the hips), costume fedora is distracting, and the pocket handkerchief is a) ugly and b) trying way too hard. Jacket sleeves look a scintilla short. Tie is NG with the jacket. Jacket looks a little long, too, though it's hard to tell without seeing the legs.

Film Noir Buff wrote:

formby wrote:

Thumbs up...or...thumbs down

http://www.savilerow-style.com/issue017 … smandb.jpg

The jacket seems long. I dont like the white shirt on him because it washes him out. He seems already overcome by the pattern of the suit. Tie is also insipid, makes the suit look like it's about to devour a mouse.  I am not a huge fan of that overly nipped in waist. Shoulders look too big on him. Stripes seem set wrong from lapel to collar.

Have you guessed the tailor. If not, try

(try not to cheat by looking at the image info)

formby wrote:

Film Noir Buff wrote:

formby wrote:

Thumbs up...or...thumbs down

http://www.savilerow-style.com/issue017 … smandb.jpg

The jacket seems long. I dont like the white shirt on him because it washes him out. He seems already overcome by the pattern of the suit. Tie is also insipid, makes the suit look like it's about to devour a mouse.  I am not a huge fan of that overly nipped in waist. Shoulders look too big on him. Stripes seem set wrong from lapel to collar.

Have you guessed the tailor. If not, try

(try not to cheat by looking at the image info)

Looks like Dege, Kilgour, Huntsman, Poole etc. standard tight para-military UK suit. It wouldn't be so bad but for the length of the jacket. The stripe mismatch sets me off a bit. I dont mind the style except for that tight chest business.