Another Japanese "ivy suit" (from "batak house")



Not bad,this is the real thing:



Why Brooks Brothers does not a model like this?

This is the J.Press current unstructured jackets, you can't get much more natural than that can you?

Well that Tailorcaid shot is my body type. I'd wear that jacket to death. I guess I don't know much about tailoring either... probably far less than you Bop and I don't know what you mean about the gorge not being in line with the notch even after you've pointed it out.

I don;t really care either. It's a nice looking jacket to me and has the details I like. I won't pour over it anymore than that or look for things to fault. Nothing jumps out at me as being 'off' with it.

That red blazer! What kind of a mad man would wear a bright red blazer!? Oh wait nevermind, I've just bought one. I won't be wearing it with a breton though. No chance. That would just look silly.

I thought it were Keydge, but I think the sleeve buttons are different ?

Ahh maybe not, that's a bit sneaky isn't it?

Re my thought of actually telling Brooks (Or Press) about these things - I was more thinking of setting up a FB-Group about it a la "BB should bring non-lined collars back" (Working tirtle ) which all the aficionads can "like". I am not on FB, maybe this does not make sense. It#s a bit like a monk talking about sex.

I just think that there is a considerable potential for this and if BB get the idea that it would make sense to test the water, they might do it. A small run of tweed herringbones for winter? A heritage "Vintage line"? I doubt these dreadfull La Martina-things they put out lately really helps the brand and business.

You'd be looking at $1000 for a sports coat, $180 for a shirt. It would be a waste of time.

No I meant for a Vintage BB line, the thing is, these garments have a history to their manufacture, to copy the suiting is way tough, it was people's who lives as experienced makers that went into those garments, the idea of getting a factory to copy them somewhere and get it perfect quick enough to make it viable is pretty hard I imagine. I mean for people looking to copy not for Brooks.

Best to come with something new, but inspired by the look, like Keydge.

Last edited by One For Bop (2012-05-23 11:47:49)

One For Bop wrote:

No I meant for a Vintage BB line, the thing is, these garments have a history to their manufacture, to copy the suiting is way tough, it was people's who lives as experienced makers that went into those garments, the idea of getting a factory to copy them somewhere and get it perfect quick enough to make it viable is pretty hard I imagine. I mean for people looking to copy not for Brooks.

Best to come with something new, but inspired by the look, like Keydge.

Yes, I only think you may have a romantic view of the business at the time. Different, maybe higher standards and working ethos/pride. But a job, after all. O.k., maybe I am too sceptical.

One For Bop wrote:

No I mean when you manufacture something, or copy something, it's is different than learning to produce it from scratch, the depth of understanding is not the same.

Ah, I see.

carpu65 wrote:

P.S. the soulders in BB 1965 photo are the same that in Jpress suits today.
Maybe,in both cases,  is the dummy?

I was talking about what I could see and feel, comparing my own recent J.Press suits and jackets that I had bought new a few years ago with those that I got second hand.

They would always stick to their basic style, and more or less, you might argue that they still do. Depending on the age of the jackets there is of course a lot of variation. This is not a bad thing. What I've got is a new Flannel suit and blazer and a second hand cotton poplin suit, ca. 80s, a late 60s seersucker jacket and a rather new (deadstock?) chalk stripe Flannel. It's a little bit like comparing apple and peas, because a heavy Flannel suit has a different structure than a light weight cotton suit, I guess.

As I don't have a way of taking pictures/ scanning, I used photos from the internet.

HTJ, it seems, is still happy with Press, and I'm sure he knows his onions. I mean that's obvious from his blog.

Nevertheless, we could use some of his catalogue pictures in order to compare Press stuff of various vintage...

carpu65 wrote:

Another Japanese "ivy suit" (from "batak house")

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4697/c16l.png

Not bad,this is the real thing:



Why Brooks Brothers does not a model like this?

carpu65 wrote:

    P.S. the soulders in BB 1965 photo are the same that in Jpress suits today.
    Maybe,in both cases,  is the dummy?


The new J.Press:



Maybe similar but not the same in my eyes.

And let's compare it with older J.Press, as the Brooks and the Press shoulder were always slightly different, I guess...

From HTJ:

1997

 

 

 

 
 
 



The last one, though, looks a little bit like the current incarnation. So it might be either about the dummy or this was an early example of a Press with an updated American silhouette.

In another post HTJ also shows this jacket on a hanger:



A few years ago during a J. Press sale, I picked up the above lightweight wool J. Press jacket in an olive gun club check. Though I did not plan on having this realization, I began to notice that it was ideally suited to both the spring and to the early fall when the weather is neither too hot, nor too cold. Like many guys, I enjoy blue odd jackets and blazers, but this kind of check is a great alternative. It works well paired with a solid oxford shirt, an emblematic tie, and either khakis or medium grey trousers.

http://heavytweed.blogspot.de/2012/05/s … -wool.html



I remember mentioning that one here some years ago, too. I didn't buy it, but I think I linked to their website...

So there might be hope that they are still doing the proper stuff... ? Maybe it's just some exceptions? The problem is that it's hard to tell from these website pictures. It's hard to believe that these differences are merely a matter of presentation. Why shouldn't they be able to show their garments in a way that the soft natural shoulder line can be recognized by its devotees?

However, in my eyes, the best example for their continuity/ conservatism if you want... is surprisingly from the 1970s:




 

 

 
 
 







 

 

 
 
 




http://heavytweed.blogspot.de/2011/12/j … 77_20.html

There's also a cat from 1979 somewhere...


So what's the conclusion?

I suppose it was always about an up- to date version of their traditional Ivy Style. Then there was a period, probably late 90s/ early 2000s when they slowly introduced a little bit more padding and structure than usual, similar to the shoulder of the Updated American Silhouette/ Paul Stuart/ BB #2, but keeping some of the more obvious Ivy details such as the lack of darts... This might have been a gradual move or a sudden break, I'm not sure. One might think of this as a contemporary iteration of Ivy or one might consider this as a serious departure...

It's either that or they haven't been able to present their stuff in a way that one can recognize the soft shoulder...

Especially when they're not even J.Press!

I still think this looks great and wish they had it in my size with the current promo sale