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#1 2017-12-27 17:07:38

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Berle chinos

Does anyone have any experience with Berle chinos? I found them at Hunter and Coggins, which also sells Bill's, but they're way cheaper than Bill's at $95 for cotton twill... Available in short, regular and long rise...

https://hunterandcoggins.com/catalog/berle-trousers

Light weight and tropical worsted wool trousers as well, for $130/135...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#2 2017-12-27 18:30:48

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11201

Re: Berle chinos

/\  Beebs, I am pretty sure J. Press has recently carried Berle chinos, both the 100% cotton and the cotton/poly poplin, and both seem fine, almost as good as the very same ones with the J. Press labels sewn in .....

it's possible Press also carried the Berle tropical worsted as well

but I'd be more willing to try the cotton twills and the cotton/poly poplins first ......

in any event Hunter & Coggins seems to have a good return policy, Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back, so ............


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#3 2017-12-27 18:36:55

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

stanshall wrote:

/\  Beebs, I am pretty sure J. Press has recently carried Berle chinos, both the 100% cotton and the cotton/poly poplin, and both seem fine, almost as good as the very same ones with the J. Press labels sewn in .....

it's possible Press also carried the Berle tropical worsted as well

but I'd be more willing to try the cotton twills and the cotton/poly poplins first ......

in any event Hunter & Coggins seems to have a good return policy, Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back, so ............

Thanks for this info, stan... I've been using the same workhorse Lands End chinos for quite a while, they fit well and look good but they're starting to turn into yard work trousers, so I'm scouting out replacements... Bill's seem to be a gold standard of sorts but it's hard to argue with a price more than $50 cheaper... Nice to know the cotton/poly poplins are nice too... I'm planning on hitting those up first, still most likely heading over to O'Connell's for worsted wool despite the prices...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#4 2017-12-28 00:59:39

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: Staines-upon-Thames, Middlesex
Posts: 6183

Re: Berle chinos

Sourcing decent chinos is a perennial problem so I will be interested to hear any experiences with Berle.

Bills are great quality but I've never been impressed with the cut or rise.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

 

#5 2017-12-28 02:07:12

Classic
Member
Posts: 59

Re: Berle chinos

Very interesting. Getting decent chinos in Germany is a nightmare. Had the classic Dockers Marina for years, but now they changed the cut for the worse.


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#6 2017-12-28 09:33:44

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11201

Re: Berle chinos

/\  I have some Berle walk shorts that were store-labeled from the long-running now-defunct Ivy>Prep shop the Country Squire in Fort Lauderdale, a place our pal Senorservo2.0 turned me on to, from which I nabbed several very key items over a couple of very good years and then bang the place was out of business ....

... the poplin walk shorts from the Squire were from Berle, because they had a Berle tag on the inside along with a Country Squire store label, and they were identical to my Press poplin walk shorts when I A-B'd them , and the same went for the poplin trousers ....


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#7 2017-12-28 09:54:12

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

Nice, I'll try to pick some of these up in the near-ish future and will update this thread when I do... Yes, I've never been able to pull the trigger on Bill's because I just wasn't sure about rise, etc... Hopefully these fit the bill, as it were! I may email someone to ask about the different rises, if I do I'll post the reply here...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#8 2017-12-28 12:20:20

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11201

Re: Berle chinos

/\  never had any Bill's, my khaki needs had already been met before they came into existence and gained a following ...

already had Orvis, Bean, Andover, Press, and Brooks, from '81 on, supplemented by increasing numbers of poplin trousers accumulating from outgrown wash-and-wear summer suits     (and those would be great beaters, because who cared what happened to them, and I liked that recycling aspect) ....

currently have the above plus a bunch of really good ones from O'Connell's ....

I have had that Hunter and Coggins site marked for poplins for a while, because O'Connell's ran very low on poplins for a while there, now they're better, but I was looking at their numerous good Ivy trouser offerings ....

let us know how the Berle experiment goes, satisfaction is guaranteed by Hunter and Coggins, can't say fairer than that ....


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#9 2017-12-28 12:25:48

Yuca
Member
Posts: 6949

Re: Berle chinos

I got a pair of Bills M2 cords a while ago, from their made in US days. Too wide on the thigh (an easy fix really) but otherwise a good cut with a decent rise. The quality of the corduroy is outstanding; according to my tailor it's better than that used by O'C's and is the best he's seen since the 70s.

But I don't think their chinos are made in the US any more, so unless I see some from the past I'll stick with O'C's and may well try Berle too if rise reports are sufficiently enticing.


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#10 2017-12-28 13:10:24

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11201

Re: Berle chinos

Yuca wrote:

I got a pair of Bills M2 cords a while ago, from their made in US days. Too wide on the thigh (an easy fix really) but otherwise a good cut with a decent rise. The quality of the corduroy is outstanding; according to my tailor it's better than that used by O'C's and is the best he's seen since the 70s.

But I don't think their chinos are made in the US any more, so unless I see some from the past I'll stick with O'C's and may well try Berle too if rise reports are sufficiently enticing.

should add here that I love my narrow-wale cords possibly NOS from O'Connell's ... and my mediums from Andover, and the wides from Press and Andover, as well as some baggy Italian ones from somewhere, they're slouchy but groovy, and my 519s too, and the medium-wale Lees I have here too ......


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#11 2017-12-28 16:46:02

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

Hard to find good wide-wale cords nowadays. Just bought Brooks Hudson fit wide-wales, 8 I believe, for less than $100 with the holiday sale... Wide-wale cords in a good color for less than $150 is a rare thing...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#12 2017-12-29 04:24:59

WildBlue
New member
Posts: 9

Re: Berle chinos

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

Hard to find good wide-wale cords nowadays. Just bought Brooks Hudson fit wide-wales, 8 I believe, for less than $100 with the holiday sale... Wide-wale cords in a good color for less than $150 is a rare thing...

Cordings has some good ones, but their rise is only 10 inches. Joseph Turner has some at a slightly lower price, made with 16-17oz Brisbane Moss fabric, high rise ( falls perfectly at natural waist), but the trimmings are nothing to write home about.

Very interested to read your thoughts about these chinos, I have none at all in my wardrobe and would like to add some basic pairs for casual wear.

Last edited by WildBlue (2017-12-29 04:25:32)

 

#13 2017-12-29 06:25:15

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

WildBlue wrote:

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

Hard to find good wide-wale cords nowadays. Just bought Brooks Hudson fit wide-wales, 8 I believe, for less than $100 with the holiday sale... Wide-wale cords in a good color for less than $150 is a rare thing...

Cordings has some good ones, but their rise is only 10 inches. Joseph Turner has some at a slightly lower price, made with 16-17oz Brisbane Moss fabric, high rise ( falls perfectly at natural waist), but the trimmings are nothing to write home about.

Very interested to read your thoughts about these chinos, I have none at all in my wardrobe and would like to add some basic pairs for casual wear.

I've never really liked the look of Cordings trousers - too breeches-like, somehow... Plus, being based in the US, it costs an additional 37.50 or something in shipping to get stuff from Cordings to the USA. It's brutal...

The Joseph Turner ones do look nice...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#14 2018-01-08 13:00:26

mhalat
Member
Posts: 74

Re: Berle chinos

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

WildBlue wrote:

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

Hard to find good wide-wale cords nowadays. Just bought Brooks Hudson fit wide-wales, 8 I believe, for less than $100 with the holiday sale... Wide-wale cords in a good color for less than $150 is a rare thing...

Cordings has some good ones, but their rise is only 10 inches. Joseph Turner has some at a slightly lower price, made with 16-17oz Brisbane Moss fabric, high rise ( falls perfectly at natural waist), but the trimmings are nothing to write home about.

Very interested to read your thoughts about these chinos, I have none at all in my wardrobe and would like to add some basic pairs for casual wear.

I've never really liked the look of Cordings trousers - too breeches-like, somehow... Plus, being based in the US, it costs an additional 37.50 or something in shipping to get stuff from Cordings to the USA. It's brutal...

The Joseph Turner ones do look nice...

For my body type (major league dad bod):

#10 Wale Lands End cords in traditional fit do the trick - I like the rise, which sits above my navel, and the wide leg, as I often need to wear long johns with them. Colours are limited to tan, bottle green, maroon, and navy though. The bottle green in particular is great.

I think it was Woof who put me on to Orvis Ultimate chinos in Trim Fit, which is more fitted than trim, by millennial standards. I really love them. Trouble is, the fabric is very heavy - they're not sophisticated enough to be a dress chino imo, they lack a certain delicacy. Great casual wear though.

 

#15 2018-01-08 13:13:02

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

mhalat wrote:

Berkeley_Breathes wrote:

WildBlue wrote:


Cordings has some good ones, but their rise is only 10 inches. Joseph Turner has some at a slightly lower price, made with 16-17oz Brisbane Moss fabric, high rise ( falls perfectly at natural waist), but the trimmings are nothing to write home about.

Very interested to read your thoughts about these chinos, I have none at all in my wardrobe and would like to add some basic pairs for casual wear.

I've never really liked the look of Cordings trousers - too breeches-like, somehow... Plus, being based in the US, it costs an additional 37.50 or something in shipping to get stuff from Cordings to the USA. It's brutal...

The Joseph Turner ones do look nice...

For my body type (major league dad bod):

#10 Wale Lands End cords in traditional fit do the trick - I like the rise, which sits above my navel, and the wide leg, as I often need to wear long johns with them. Colours are limited to tan, bottle green, maroon, and navy though. The bottle green in particular is great.

I think it was Woof who put me on to Orvis Ultimate chinos in Trim Fit, which is more fitted than trim, by millennial standards. I really love them. Trouble is, the fabric is very heavy - they're not sophisticated enough to be a dress chino imo, they lack a certain delicacy. Great casual wear though.

Nice mhalat, great info... I thought about getting the LE cords recently but wanted brown so got Brooks Bros Hudson fit cords which are also a great option, no cuffs but I can live with that...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#16 2018-01-08 17:16:17

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15981

Re: Berle chinos

Berk, I could be divulging completely erroneous info here, but I think Hertling may have actually made trousers for Berle at some point.  Maybe still do?  I could have either read this online somewhere, which doesn't mean it's correct at all, or I could have dreamt it.  Berle pants I've seen look similar to Hertlings in construction.  There's only one option in my book, at this point.  O'C's isn't cheap, but they are the ticket.  Best I've found in terms of fit and finish.


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#17 2018-01-08 17:23:43

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

Worried Man wrote:

Berk, I could be divulging completely erroneous info here, but I think Hertling may have actually made trousers for Berle at some point.  Maybe still do?  I could have either read this online somewhere, which doesn't mean it's correct at all, or I could have dreamt it.  Berle pants I've seen look similar to Hertlings in construction.  There's only one option in my book, at this point.  O'C's isn't cheap, but they are the ticket.  Best I've found in terms of fit and finish.

WM, thanks for the info... I've decided to hold off on Berle for the moment, as I'm waiting on a pair of old Army service khakis which I'm hoping will fit the bill... I'll add your recommendation to the "pros" list for O'Cs, as much as their prices make me wish they were terrible I find myself leaning more and more towards them with each passing year...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#18 2018-01-08 17:26:52

ste
Member
From: San Francisco
Posts: 53

Re: Berle chinos

I've been buying Hudson fit and taking in the waist to fit my previously fat legs and rear. It's got the best rise from BB in my opinion.

Now that I'm emaciated again I would like to take a look at their Hudson in the proper fitting waist. I'm sure the tailor will be able to taper the legs.

 

#19 2018-01-08 17:47:08

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

ste wrote:

I've been buying Hudson fit and taking in the waist to fit my previously fat legs and rear. It's got the best rise from BB in my opinion.

Now that I'm emaciated again I would like to take a look at their Hudson in the proper fitting waist. I'm sure the tailor will be able to taper the legs.

I really like the Hudson as well... I'm sure a tailor could taper them well, what's your preferred leg opening ste? I personally like a baggier fit and I've had no problems with the Hudson - they're roomy but not flopping around all over the place (and I have stick legs, even)...


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#20 2018-01-08 20:19:39

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 11201

Re: Berle chinos

Worried Man wrote:

Berk, I could be divulging completely erroneous info here, but I think Hertling may have actually made trousers for Berle at some point.  Maybe still do?  I could have either read this online somewhere, which doesn't mean it's correct at all, or I could have dreamt it.  Berle pants I've seen look similar to Hertlings in construction.  There's only one option in my book, at this point.  O'C's isn't cheap, but they are the ticket.  Best I've found in terms of fit and finish.

Completely concur with Wizardman, you get spoiled by the O'Cs.


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#21 2018-01-12 21:44:47

ste
Member
From: San Francisco
Posts: 53

Re: Berle chinos

Berkeley - what I have now are too big, because I was fatter, with fatter legs and rear so I sized up then took in the waist. Now the waist is quite loose (maybe 4 inches), and the rest is like WW2 baggy.

I have a feeling if I get the right size, probably a 32, then I'd just taper a bit below the knee. Somewhere around 8.5 inches.

 

#22 2018-01-13 02:28:32

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: Staines-upon-Thames, Middlesex
Posts: 6183

Re: Berle chinos

Ideal chino/trousers measurement?

Thigh - 12"
Knee - 10"
Hem - 8"

I went through a phase of obsessing over trouser taper, one time I ended up spoiling a nice pair by having them over tapered. Sometimes they work out well, but often if the original cut is messed with they never look quite right. I've concluded that generally it's best to leave well alone and if you like a pair of trousers, but they are half an inch wider at the ankle than you would ideally like - just live with it.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

 

#23 2018-01-13 10:29:19

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

I have a chinos update for you all! I put a hold on Berle because it's still more than I want to pay and this thread + research elsewhere made me feel like their basic chinos aren't a good deal, quality-wise. The Charleston Khakis people said are closer to Bill's, but cheaper - which is good, and eventually I'll give 'em a try.

Also, for anyone interested, looks like their long rise is only available for larger waist sizes, I believe starting at 36. Might be worth looking into for people with more gravitas than I have.

My solution was to buy two pairs of old Army khakis. The two pairs together cost me around $50. I'm still waiting on one pair to arrive, and I'll update you on that. However, the pair that is here is close to being my ideal chino.

The chinos I've been wearing for the last several years are Land's End Traditional fit Lighthouse chinos with cuffs, which I believe are no longer available. They have a watch pocket and a not-terrible 10" rise, and the cuffs are a big plus. But I would prefer a higher rise. The Lighthouse chinos are pretty soft - they're untreated, so they feel better than LL Bean's chinos, and they're light enough for a good range of temperatures.

The Army khakis I just received are marked G-7667. That's not a DSA number, I'm not sure what it is (I never knew much about the Quartermaster Corps). Google doesn't pull anything up. But these are cotton, and they're heavier than my Lands' End. They have no cuffs, which is too bad, but not a dealbreaker. Here's the details:

Button fly with 5 buttons
2 rear pockets
2 slash side pockets (Lisa Birnbach would shudder but I don't care)
Watch pocket
7 belt loops

Waist:
Rise: 12.75"-13"
Thigh: 13" (approximately)
Knee: 10.75"
Hem: 9.5"

So yes, they're baggy, but I like baggy chinos as opposed to tapered, and the rise is high enough that the bagginess looks natural. Here are a couple pics, with a slightly too-long tie (tie, shirt and blazer are all Brooks Brothers)

https://s26.postimg.org/o018zxi15/IMG_2577.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/gwtdkb4vt/IMG_2578.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/tbg5kmoo9/IMG_2580.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/7p153msop/IMG_2582.jpg


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

#24 2018-01-13 10:40:31

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: Staines-upon-Thames, Middlesex
Posts: 6183

Re: Berle chinos

Rise-tastic!!


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

 

#25 2018-01-13 10:45:17

Berkeley_Breathes
Moderator
From: The Great White North
Posts: 1765

Re: Berle chinos

woofboxer wrote:

Rise-tastic!!

13" is, perhaps, excessive big_smile But honestly, they feel great. The other pair I ordered are a different model, so I'm excited to compare them. My guess is that that pair will have a lower rise, as they were made later than these.


"Always take your job seriously, never yourself." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

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