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#1 2013-10-06 23:52:55

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6159

The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

 

#2 2013-10-06 23:53:53

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6159

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

Irony's Not Dead, Long Live Irony-  Jen Doll - Nov 19, 2012

Christy Wampole's Opinionator piece in the Sunday New York Times, "How to Live Without Irony," has a lot of people talking, ironically or otherwise. In it, Wampole, who is an assistant professor of French at Princeton, discusses "the ethos of our age," or "ironic living," as represented by the—you knew this was inevitable—hipster, who "haunts every city street and university town" hiding in plain sight, or not hiding at all, clad in the material trappings of irony. You know, again: "outmoded fashions (the mustache, the tiny shorts), mechanisms (fixed-gear bicycles, portable record players) and hobbies (home brewing, playing trombone)," as well as fashions of the internal sort—"awkwardness," "self-consciousness," "self-scrutiny," and relentless study of "what has yet to be found by the mainstream." Yet by seeking what hasn't been "found" by the mainstream and appropriating those things, the mustache, the tiny shorts, and the fixies all become just another brand of mainstream, albeit one hated by those who choose not to adopt them, who dub them and those who love them "hipster." It's irony, wrapped in irony, inside more irony.

Wampole calls the hipster a symptom of ironic living and not the affliction itself, but the illustrations in the piece all depict this symptom (the hipster) with, I think, quite a lot of enjoyment, as do any number of recent Styles section pieces affirming the trendiness of the man bun and the beard. Because of that, the irony of a piece on irony in the New York Times is not lost on the appreciator of deep, mysterious ironies. Is the Times being ironic, which would be a kind of uber-irony? Truly, Wampole seems earnest, here. She appears to be actually tired of irony, and tired of those hipsters, and also concerned about what we've suffered because of it—lack of good conversations and face-to-face communication and decent Christmas presents, perhaps, in favor of narcissism and quick quips and easy laughs. She asks, "Where can we find other examples of nonironic living? What does it look like? Nonironic models include very young children, elderly people, deeply religious people, people with severe mental or physical disabilities, people who have suffered, and those from economically or politically challenged places where seriousness is the governing state of mind."

Nonironic models also include that guy with the fixie telling that girl in the skinny jeans that he loves her, or that guy with the mustache turning down the New York Times interview because he doesn't want to be made into a Styles piece, for real this time! Point being, stereotypes are just stereotypes. No one person suffers from 100 percent irony, no matter what they wear or look like, because it's pretty hard to live—or even order a grilled cheese with artisanal bacon—that way.

So what is this piece, exactly? Is it a kind of performance art? Is it, as Gothamist's Christopher Robbins writes, "an important piece of service journalism"? Is it hopelessly New York Times-ian, i.e., self-serious as it attempts to join the trend party several years later than it began? Is this really a think piece about Guy Fieri? Or is it just that Wampole feels really, really strongly about irony?

Here's what I can share about irony. The term's first known use in English dates back to 1502. It comes from Greek and Latin, meaning that way back before trucker caps and skinny jeans and the way we talk about them now (are we still talking about them now?) even existed there were ironies of a different time and with a different look. There were Socratic ironies, for example, and there are dramatic ironies, and there are accidental ones, too. Alanis Morrisette has sung perhaps the most annoyingly stick-in-your-head song about irony, but the ironies characterized in that song—"rain on your wedding day," a "free ride when you already paid," and so on now seem less ironic than they seem, well, basically just cliched. Which is sort of what Wampole might be talking about. Maybe she just wishes people would stop trying so hard and be, and is that so wrong, to be without the faux-cleverness that distances people from the real emotion of life, or everyone hiding in public behind the subterfuge of wit or ennui, or "life in the Internet age," and all the cliches and hashtags and brand appreciation and anti-brand appreciation that come with it?

But life in the Internet age isn't ironic anymore than anything else is, really, it's just life. And the lack of acknowledgement of that, along with the article's focus on hipsters, is part of what makes its cry for more earnestness seem a bit dated. (We've been talking about earnestness for months, you guys! Sometimes it's great. And sometimes a dash of irony is precisely what the meal needs.) Our ironies aren't confined to times and places and hipsters and Instagram or whatever it is we're talking about right now: The seesaw of earnest to irony is something that's been a part of life, a part of humor, a part of entertainment for centuries, even if it appears differently over time. It's not a Gen X or Gen Y or Gen Next "thing"; it's a seesaw that need not end even when twentysomethings who currently live in Bushwick and play the ukelele have reached middle age and are getting their tattoos removed by laser. Irony has been alive for a long, long time, and there's no indication that it will cease (nor, really, reason for it to do so). It's a thing of value, really: That option, when there is too much enthusiasm or earnestness or real emotion with which we can feel comfortable, to measure out a dose of snark, sarcasm, or some other distancing tactic to neutralize the extreme level of our emotion. And vice versa, when there is too much irony, when we feel like we've lost the real sense of who and what we are and how we feel, we can add a bit more honest emotion to the equation. But without irony, God, we would be insufferable. There are incongruities of life that can be reflected in no healthier way than with a clever ironic retort.

I'd also argue that we're very nearly post-ironic these days. Perhaps there are behavioral pockets, yes, but look at the way people react with great feeling to any number of things online and off of it, whether those topics are politics, race, government, sexism, television shows, books, movies, or the way we relate to one another more generally as humans. Look at the enormity of feeling that emerged in and around the recent presidential election cycle, and what came after. Look at the way people respond to strong opinions. And so, plenty of people are busily expressing their earnest, true, direct beliefs, whether we like those beliefs or not. (Sometimes, in fairness, the best way to combat them is with a bit of irony; as with most things, moderation may be a kind of key here.)

But I'll end with a question: Can irony really be killed if the New York Times is publishing thousand-word essays on the matter of irony? There are far too many comments on Wampole's piece for any editor worth his or her salt to earnestly wish irony truly dead.

 

#3 2013-10-07 00:10:06

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6159

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

 

#4 2013-10-07 05:34:34

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

Interesting pieces, and that kind of hipster phenomena was certainly evident by 1990, as a recognisable complete arsehole type. The type has become more refined and distilled in its non-entity entity.

The 1990s seem to me the most non-descript decade of the modern age. I look back and think, nothing of interest happened.
The 1980s and 2000s by comparison were far more interesting.

I prefer the angel headed hipster - seaching for that heavenly connection forever in a beret and beat cafe digging his bebop.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#5 2013-10-07 19:05:47

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

Ironic life in the face of reality was already well grounded in American life during the Civil War. If you ever read the social histories or the soldiers' letters, you would see this.

We havent had anything new since the very early 80s. Frankly, everything that has followed, including Nirvana's music, are rehashes of 60s and 70s culture. Those decades were the last gasp of creativity. It could be that it was because the rush to create pop culture hadnt attained the level it is at now and thus the quality had to be higher to gain selective traction.


When I study photos, film, TV etc from the 60s and 70s, very little has changed for mens clothing. Most of those characters could be transported to today. Womens clothing is simpler and lighter in weight but the hair styles are similar. About the mens' clothes, reactionaries will tell you this is proof of the clothing's correctness but i dont think that's the main reason. Clothing doesn't remain unchanged except amongst extreme religious groups, rather, when something better comes along the original clothes are immediately discarded; although some outfits can lose caste by their wear by "servants" or the "service industry". I think no one has come up with anything better to wear.

Btw, the men and women who are screwing the world up at the moment went to college during the golden forties and fifties, thus let's not blame vulgarism for everything.

Although feminism does suck.

 

#6 2013-10-07 19:49:58

stanshall
Member
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 12991

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#7 2013-10-08 04:41:57

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#8 2013-10-08 05:31:44

Topstitcher
Member
Posts: 2519

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

/\   100% ++++++++++


What the world needs now is love, sweet love... And a jolly good kick up the harris.

 

#9 2013-10-08 09:43:01

David Reeves
Member
From: New York
Posts: 307

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

We need a war. A proper one.


REEVES
http://www.reeves-nyc.com
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/davidreevesbespoke/?hl=en

 

#10 2013-10-08 10:27:28

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15988

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#11 2013-10-08 18:14:30

De Leeuw
Member
Posts: 33

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

Last edited by De Leeuw (2013-10-08 18:14:54)

 

#12 2013-10-08 18:42:21

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

 

#13 2013-10-08 20:23:55

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

Hipsters are inauthentic, its true. They are living off the remains of a dead pop culture. I went to an art party and there were clusters of these guys in overly tight, short suits, skinny ties and pork pie hats in felt or straw with bad beards all looking like a ZZ Top concert collided with a Tom browns fashion show.

However, clothes themselves for men have achieved post ironic status. No outfit really has definitive meaning anymore except in the minds of a given generation. I went to a saturday night affair in a mohair suit, open collar shirt and brown shoes but i could've equally wore a tie, or a navy blazer or a tweed three piece suit. No one has the slightest inkling what goes where. At most, all anyone cares about is if the quality is nice and you look nice. You could wear a 20oz Harris tweed suit in the dead of August in NYC and people would tell you how awesome you look. I had a bold sports jacket in aubergine ground with a pair of jeans and someone told me, "Nice suit". I think you could wear a Tuxedo around town and no one would care, except maybe a handful of completely out of touch relics or anal retentive clothing geeks. neither of who will ever have the remotest influence on your life.

 

#14 2013-10-09 05:34:08

Dudley Clarke
Member
Posts: 1211

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


I came up to see her sometimes.

 

#15 2013-10-09 07:34:34

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#16 2013-10-09 08:15:25

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4181

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#17 2013-10-09 08:58:23

Dudley Clarke
Member
Posts: 1211

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


I came up to see her sometimes.

 

#18 2013-10-09 10:05:48

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15988

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

While computers and internet may not be new, I think the modern advent of the internet-equipped Pear Shaped / smart phone is revolutionizing they way people interact, especially teenagers.  I'm often out eating or something and a whole table will be looking at their phones and not even looking at or saying a word to one another for almost the entire meal.  It really bothers me for some reason.  People are more connected to what they can find and do on their phone, or what is now essentially a small pocket sized computer, than what is actually going on around them in real time.  And never have we had such immediate access to so much information literally at our fingertips.

Last edited by Worried Man (2013-10-09 10:06:18)


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#19 2013-10-09 10:46:46

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#20 2013-10-09 10:51:24

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#21 2013-10-09 10:53:33

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

...oh, and by the way....Fuck Hipsters...!!!!


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#22 2013-10-09 11:23:20

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15988

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony

Hipsters love the no-interaction-face-in-smart phone approach to "socializing".  When I see the eating and texting / surfing people I will often times launch into a rant.  Mrs. Worried Man will caution that I should mind my own business and remind me that what they're doing doesn't affect me.  Then she'll also add "...and you really just sound like an 80-year-old man right now."


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#23 2013-10-09 12:26:01

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: The Hipster - How to Live Without Irony


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

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