I have a degree in sociology.  Trust me, I could go on an on about gender, sex, race, class, inequality, suicide, the glass ceiling, immigration, emigration, sociobiology, and the far-reaching fallout of the widespread availability of the birth control pill and the subsequent detriment to the modern male psyche.  But I just want to see some collegiate cut chinos, man.

Within a sensible range, I can safely say it hasn't made a blind bit of difference however casual or well-dressed I have ever been over the years. It's just something I enjoy like others might enjoy wine, chamber music or ice hockey. And I really could (not) care less about what others choose to wear. These things are a reflection of what's going on inside the wearer and less of society at large.

Oh fuck it... Its all over here now.  Sorry guys!

You just can't get the staff nowadays

I think Billax raised an interesting point but due to the brainwashing of my generation things like sexism and racism are argued in such a fingers in the ear way we do risk losing the ability to discuss less than comfortable issues. I realised my views on race were seriously skewed by my education. It was installed in us like a religion sexism is a bad thing. Same with racism. It was unquestioning and anything to the contrary was stifled. Or shouted down.

As some that believes deeply in the freedom of people to at least discuss opposing views I took it upon myself to really question these beliefs in myself. That's not to say i became racist or sexist but choose to actually listening to other people's arguments.

From this you can gather that sometimes people's opinions come from experiences that they have chosen to form in a way that serves them.

Personally everything is up for debate but you must take on other people's views not just shout them down whether you're on one side or the other.

Back to Billax I think what is touched upon is the position of a man to be a provider in the traditional sense. Feminism has allowed woman to become self sufficient in our society. And I don't see that being a bad thing. This does mean however women need not be attracted by things such as money or security. When clothes reflect these attributes they may not be as attractive to women as clothes that actually make men look physically attractive. In the same way a man might be more attracted to a more liberally dressed woman the  a Conservative one. In our culture young men now dress to impress women physically. This doesn't have to mean muscles in can actually just be called male beauty. This can manifest in many different ways. In fact I think it can even be more observed when we did enter a worldwide recession. Western countries that adopted casualness now have become more formal more willing to show standing. Because now there is a very real threat of not being a provider. I think that is the two major influences on mens dress currently. The need to attract women by their own beauty and a need for every one to look as though they are successful. There is still the hangover though of those successful people who like to look like shit. But it appears as society expects better standards of dress even they need to communicate their wealth

Last edited by Yuca (2014-02-17 08:40:52)

You kind of touch on the "identity crisis" I was alluding to, Bop.  And Doggie, I admire your undertaking of continuing education.  I'm not sure what the broad field of sociology is really like at present.  My education was grounded more in traditional social theory with large emphasis on sociology of culture and economic sociology, but also plenty of courses on race and ethnicity, sexuality, gender, etc.  I do know that most of my more traditional professors were vehement against so-called "fluff sociology"... you know, studying patterns of shopping in malls, the sociology of junk food, the sociology of video games, the sociology of the hipster, and all that stuff.  Those types of books really began being published at an astounding rate when I was in school in the early 2000s.  Not saying that those studies can't be immensely interesting page turners.  I remember one of the first reading assignments I had in college was Class, by Paul Fussell.  Haha!  That was a fun course.  None of my professors ever assigned textbooks.  Not once.  I liked that.

I don't think the identity crisis comes from changes in gender roles, or the equalizing of them, but the disintegration of the traditional opportunities for working class males, along with the social contract and the death of the corporate man, even at blue collar leve;. Some, have done well out of this new reality, others are on the dung heap of humanity.

Without wanting to sound like a Neanderthal sexist or whatever the current nasty term is.
Thats been pretty much consistent with what i see.