Here with his boyfriend... http://cache.g4tv.com/images/blog/2008/06/20/633495620283352429.jpg

... Remember what The Fonz's 'Office' was?  The Dirty Get!

I always found the Fonz's use of the toilet as his "office" pretty gross, even as a kid.  Now I'm struck by the creepiness of his pursuit of teenaged twin sisters.  How old was he supposed to be?

RC and Dreyfuss in AG are style models for me in the warmer months--short-sleeved button-down shirts, chinos, Chuck Taylors.

Well?  Was he? 
I never fully understood the concept of 'Trad'.  To me, it was, and still is, Americana.  I do it pretty much every day in some form or another.

It was a funny little program really wasn’t it?

Obviously very contemporary 70’s. The 50’s aspect always looked shoehorned in to give it a decent soundtrack and a healthy dose of Mom’s apple pie.

It’s sound proof of how quickly the world moved back then. I can’t imagine anyone today making a program based on feel good nostalgia for the year 2000. Nothing looks or feels particularly different.

If I’d been much older I probably would have seen it as corny early Saturday night TV. But I was what? 6/7/8? I thought it was great.

The Fonz never impressed me. But even at that age I always had an eye for Richie and the gang’s clothes. Golf and letterman jackets. Loose, no break chinos and turned up straight jeans. Loafers, converse and (I think) white bucks. And those white T’s under button downs. I moved on for a few years but the imagery never left me. Letterman jackets haven’t aged that well I think. Everything else is solid. Give or take, it’s what I wear most days of the week.

Was he trad? When I think of trad I probably wrongly think bow ties. Seersucker. Stereotypical older Southern gentleman style. Or a young Jimmy Stewart maybe. Not high school kids making out at Inspiration Point to a Fats Domino soundtrack.

Spendthrift -‘ It’s sound proof of how quickly the world moved back then. I can’t imagine anyone today making a program based on feel good nostalgia for the year 2000. Nothing looks or feels particularly different.’

Sound observation. I recently watched a 3 part documentary ‘The House of Maxwell’ about the family of that name. It was an interesting reminder of the extent of Robert Maxwell’s and his children’s crimes, some of which couldn’t be fully reported on at the time due to court proceedings. What an awful bunch, as far removed from normal as you could get, you can’t help wondering, if they had received the occasional hug and had to do a paper round, whether they might have turned out differently. Hardly anyone normal featured in those programs. Anyway back to the point; a lot of footage of London and other places in the 80s and 90s appeared and it reminded me what an ugly time that was, the only good thing was that it was slightly less bad and distorted than things are now. But I would have no desire to turn the clock back to 1990, I wouldn’t mind having my 35 year old person’s body back though.

He wasn't trad because that type of American dress surfaced in the early 2000's (although it is heavily influenced by Ivy League and Preppy styles). The term may have been invented online (as the internet is the largest medium of media at this time) just as the term Ivy League Style was made up but not online because online didn't exist. Richie Cunningham was definitely influenced by the Hey Day popularity of Ivy League Style.

Last edited by oxford cloth button down (2022-04-19 06:56:30)

The have significance because they are a result of the social/political context of the time. When you remove the context from which they existed they do not exist in the same way.

Last edited by oxford cloth button down (2022-04-19 08:00:19)

Someone dissed Mork & Mindy on this thread which I am not having. Robbie saw Richie C's mum as a MILF. Well I certainly saw the delicious Mindy as an ILF. And Mork's stripy braces were quite trad.

My understanding is that in the early Eighties that All American look was considered pretty cool in soul clubs. Not so the haircut but more the varsity jackets, Levis and white T shirts under a Oxford.
USA loafers were always good for dancing in.

You can also add old Baseball tops which we thrifted from Flip.

It was agreed, many years ago, on another thread, that some of us were prepared - indeed eager - to perform shocking sexual acts upon the personage of the said Mindy. 

We need lower the tone no further.

Yes I know exactly what you mean.

To me, ‘Trad’, as I understand it, is wholly owned by Americans. I don’t see how anyone from any other country or background can convincingly come close to it, without there being a huge amount of cosplay involved. Maybe that’s also true for some Americans? Maybe it’s not a big deal or much of a statement to dress or act like that over there? However they see it, they’re probably right.

I’m hard wired to reject ‘trad’ and embrace ‘modern’. Even though I’m not a huge jazz fan. Which is ridiculous really.

I also see prep as being slightly derogatory. The eighties TV shows and films I grew up with invariably featured one or two rich, spoiled asshole characters. Usually beating up on the poorer kid who wins out in the end. I think this image travelled well to the UK where Yuppies downing £1000 bottles if champers were often portrayed as a bit preppy. Again, hugely unlikable characters.

All that said, how can a fifty year old man from England claim to be in any way Ivy League? Or Collegiate? It doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny really does it?

I suppose whatever it was, or has evolved into in the UK, no doubt for some of us taking on a fair amount of continental influence along the way, Ivy League is just what it happens to be called. I wouldn’t describe myself as Ivy League, an Ivy Leaguer, an Ivyist, or Preppy the way I used to call myself a mod. I’m just me and these are the style of clothes I like. I think it’s great that others have that same ‘world view’ that AFS refers to.

Last edited by Spendthrift (2022-04-20 00:15:51)

Maybe the trad jazz revival/rediscovery over here in the 50s/60s, Acker Bilk, Melly etc. was specifically referred to as 'Trad Jazz'? But that would have been the British again feeling a need to put a label on it.

Didn't Chris Barber get abuse from the trad crowd when he modernised his sound? He probably thought of it as just music. If the musician's good enough at their job they usually want to move it on. And usually get lambasted by the fans that want the same stuff ad infinitum. I don't know enough about jazz to know if Americans called that sound trad. Probably not. Probably 'New Orleans ' or something?

There was the continental influence there too in the UK at that time I think. Students hanging out in French themed cellars. Berets, baggy jumpers. It probably seemed very edgy then.

I would tend to believe that a lot of the American musicians just went out shopping for clothes and bought what they fancied, influenced by others around them, rather than having some kind of epiphany moment. Ivy stuff would have crept in and out at various times over quite a long period of time. It's us that has the luxury of lumping it all together and picking and choosing.

Last edited by Spendthrift (2022-04-20 03:32:54)