An interesting one Russell. There's something to be said for the survival of the purer forms away from the supposed motherland. Take blues for instance which survived mainly outside the US before being re-imported.

On a different topic but the same thing, there's a city in Brasil called Salvador where anyone who wants to study Yoruba language, culture, dress and cuisine must go to find the authentic examples that can no longer be found in Nigeria. The reason for this is simple - In Nigeria it was just normal culture that no one thought about and times moved on and changed (like TNSIL in the US?) whereas in Brasil the culture, dress and food took on almost mystical significance as the defining element for the slaves and post slaves to affirm their true identity.

Even today you will find teenage girls wearing Yoruba clothes going about their business in Salvador.

(Before the PC police jumps in I'm not suggesting that UK Ivy preservation compares to slavery, but I think anyone on this forum is intelligent enough to realise that!)

Of course Japan is the formaldehyde of national cultures - in every single aspect whether you're talking about Mini Coopers, bossa nova, vintage Rolex, stamp collecting. Formidable.

What is great about them too, is that they manage to simultaneously preserver the originals exactly as they should be AND allow a twist to be added for 'fashion'. In this way the income from the 'fashion' element allows the preservation of the classics.

it was exactly this that I tried to get Bass to understand, even though it was patently obvious they never would.

I'd be tempted to state that this whole thing concerns such a miniscule part of the US population to make the question silly, but then I remembered overhearing this in the Torrington, Conn. Goodwill thrift store:

Man, mid-30s, t-shirt and jeans: How about this shirt? (Holds up RL uni stripe buttondown collar)

Woman, mid 30s, t-shirt, leather jacket and jeans, gravity-defying hair: Naaah, whaddya some kinda preppy?

Some conceptions die hard, I guess.

The following sums it up neatly for me:

"Robert "Chip" Thurston will inherit $50,000,000… IF he survives the weekend."

"baggage" is inherent the second you stick a label on anything.

I think it is generally acknowledged that top to toe Ivy is a rarity in the UK; only that aspects of it are included.  I do venture forth, however, into this mucky little town in everything US-made and as close to top to toe as I believe is humanly possible.

No one notices.

This guy from "Behind The Scenes" is great:


"Clothing in the US is down to the lowest common denominator.  Everyone wears khakis and button-downs.  Everyone is business casual or worse.

Most people look past clothing now, I believe, unless the item is so far off the scale as to be noticeable.  Embroidered green pants, for instance.   

This is the problem now with Trad and its curriculum.  There is very little left to distinguish it from what everyone else is wearing.  The preppy basics went mainstream.  That's why they have to fuss over certain details and wear bow ties.

History doesn't make something right.  Consensus is not a fact-based exercise.  Trad's tied and bound to this self-indulgent enterprise we call America.

Once the Trads convinced themselves, their universe fell into place. They've got their ideas and their posse of friends, they've made up their rules and the fun never ends.

But still there's a problem, leaves them gasping for air; we look for some meaning, blank smiles are all that is there.

There's no substance!"