Peter York in 'Modern Times', 1984, talking about Graphic Designers...

"... Frank has always, but always loved good grey flannel, and he's always loved girls who are slightly bandy like Julie Christie - and from about the same time. Ditto the loafers, which are actually Bass Weejuns in the classic colour bought in that shop in Covent Garden that specialises in the Ivy style, just like the place in Richmond that he went to in the sixties."

T.L.

I have a more mundane question about Ivy in your country.

Where are the stores generally found?

In America, Ivy League style backs itself with that social class bit by (generally, O'Connells a seeming exception in Buffalo, NY) placing its stores in areas that were either classic Ivy league student havens (the New Haven Press and the other old campus shops Crimson, Langrock, Hillhouse, etc) or areas of wealth and business--downtown in the cities, Manhattan, San Francisco, the Andover branch of the Andover shop, or the old (not the current) Outdoor Traders in Greenwich, CT or Murray's on Nantucket.

Since that sort of thing does not lurk in the background with the Ivy look in Britain, are the stores that sell it also found in plainer surroundings? 


Or are they all in London but just on a certain street that is associated with the look and the subcultures in the country that subscribe to it?

MOD seems to have been a very youth-oriented style. If so, then it's not surprising that when MODs grew up they'd look for a more low-key style which shares some basic elements.

The New Edwardian style seems to be a very fuzzy and narrow in scope. The only photo I've seen was in a book and it showed a 3-piece pinstripe suit with bum-freezer jacket, very narrow lapels, peg-leg pants, and a shirt with detachable Eton collar (plus the inevitable bowler/coke hat).

The Ivy-Mod look seems to be more prevalent with the really early years of Mod, late 50s-62 or so, when jazz was the main music of choice.  After that it definitely went more Continental with Italian influences in the cut of suit, shoes, mode of transport etc..and less jazz as the music of choice, replaced by soul/beat/motown.  The only Ivy carryover might have been in the shirts by the mid 60s.  Once mod metamorphed into skinhead, again the shirts were the only obvious influence of Ivy....oh, and maybe some footwear choices as loafers were popular among both subcultures for quite a while.

I never thought Teds/Edwardians had much Ivy influence at all...perhaps accidentally, but nothing that seems to be a deliberate influence.

Actually I should extend that comment about TV & Ad people to include most creative types especially in the mid-eighties when Peter York was observing Graphic Designers in the quote up above.

I think it's the soft construction and added individuality that wearing a BD & a natural shoulder jacket gives you that makes the style attractive to creative folk. It's the relaxed look it has... and yet it's all dressed-up, grown-up & smart. They love knitted ties too...

Because Ivy League clothing IS a little... casual...  by English standards.
The BD IS a casual shirt.
The soft construction of Ivy suits & jackets IS very far removed from the stiff carapace of the average English Suit which looks towards military tunics in it's heart.

Ivy in England is comfortable, a little slouchy, a bit laid back. It's classic but not uptight-white-knuckle-trying-too-hard-Savile-Row-wannabe classic.
It's a bit more hip & cool.
THIS is why it bugs the English 9 to 5 boys...
Wearing a suit is good, but wearing a suit that plays with what a suit is & what a suit means is not at all on. It offends their limited sensibilities of what the world is & how the world should be. It looks a little like taking the piss out of the idea of being all-dressed-up-for-work-in-a-suit. It looks a bit like you're suiting yourself!
Shock!  Horror!!
Nobody likes somebody who doesn't appear to be playing the game...
And EVERYBODY hates somebody who seems to be playing their own game and having fun into the bargin.

Ahhh England!

The only Ivy I ever saw at the BBC was in the mirror. They all aspired to different styles there. You'd see BDs though.
Thames TV had Ivy jackets on producers & directors especially in the summer. BDs & loafers too. Even a bit of Khaki Seersucker up at Euston Road. Hello Simon!
Channel Four back in Charlotte Street had a lot of natural shoulders at one point. Again especially in the summer in & outside 'Zanzibar' (sp?)

Ahem.

So that's another part of Ivy in England in my experience. Creative types in the Media wore it along with Mod Taxi drivers etc.

A wonderful melting pot, Ivy in the UK...



(... Can you tell I'm drunk?)

A tawny black suit bosthist, for the Ivy crowd!? I suppose I shouldnt be surprised but that's quite illuminating.

When you get some time, Terry, can you name any famous Ango-Ivy wearers?

You could even argue that there is a lack of aspiration in a way associated with the Ivy League look in England...
There is an element of opting out, of non-conformity and even of an active rejection of the status quo.
Ivy wearers over here are pretty much just following their own aesthetic tastes, being different in their own way & pursuing different goals.
For me it's all about going my own way & not having anymore than I can help to do with all the rubbish that surrounds me.
Quite happy indulging my own tastes.

REALLY like that Tawny Black.

This is cool:
My next installment here is the Gay connection (That 'All American Boy' look) that helped keep Ivy going in England during the lean years between the big youth subculture boom of the style in the '60's and the 'Preppy' revival of the early 80's.
Because the only story I can really tell is my own & that of my friends I've been bothering them to try to find something fresh to say here. Just another good excuse to talk endlessly to everyone I know...

Paul Gambaccini's name keeps coming up as an influence without him ever trying to be an influence. The boys would just see him out in a polo shirt & pay attention.
And EVERYBODY says I should keep Paul's name out of whatever nonsense I'm going to write.
I like that. That sense of community.
Mr. Gambaccini (A native New Yorker) comes into the story of Ivy in England in as much as he looked cool and 'American' and got noticed as such around town. Some people liked his style & some people copied him.

Never met the man but he is liked & loved by just about every Gay Anglo-Ivy stylist that I know.

http://www.mnemonics.co.uk/paul/