Last edited by Sammy Ambrose (2010-07-02 10:07:02)

Noone is disputing that nuts like Bin Laden, and  that other lunatic that you quoted, Abul Ala Maududi, and the rest of the extremists use the Koran and other sacred texts to justify their actions. We all know that. It's not something that needs to be stressed. On the contrary, what does need to be emphasised is the fact that these are not the views of the majority of Moslems. Nor are the radical interpretations and readings of the holy books those of the majority of modern, moderate Islamic scholars.

I actually know some of these people personally and I have many, many Moslem friends. And this lets me know with certainty that the likes of Bin Laden and probably even more so people  of the ilk of your mate, Sheikh Maududi, are viewed with  horror as they are, very understandably in view of the fact that these loonies want to oust them,  by the majority of the governing groups in the Middle East. The links that I provided in earlier posts, tried to present this more moderate and much more mainstream position.

Similarly, nobody is arguing that historically Islam was  free from empire building. But neither was Christianity. Indeed groups with no seeming religious  motivation  at all  such as the Vikings, Goths, Vandals and so on were not shy on conquering when they got the opportunity. You are unfairly and unhelpfully singling out the Moslems, and as a result you are demonising  them. Dangerous! Oh, so dangerous, Marc!

As for the Islamic Empire of centuries past being the   the largest empire in history this is simply not true. In any league table of big empires of old the  British are always in first place. Shame the same thing can't be said about Girls Ball games.

Last edited by formby (2010-07-02 16:30:25)

I know Iranians if that is what you mean. But they are exiles. One thing that is often overlooked (even some Muslims overlook it) is the fact that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all founded on the Old Testament. I must say that I find it curious that a thread that invites comments on Israel ends up with a Holy War of words against Islam...There are parts of many religions that date (as do most) from simplistic, ancient people that do not fit in the modern world, which is why many modern societies are increasingly secular. A dogged adherence to the values and way of life of 1, 2 or 3, 000 years ago (less of course for Islam) is the mark of one of two kinds: 1. a moron, or 2. a terrorist (and there have been terrorists from all these three branches of religion which, together, have probably brought far more misery to mankind than comfort).

Last edited by Reckless Reggie (2010-07-03 09:00:29)

Quite right - obscure. Go down to Muslim parts of London at Christmas and you will find halal turkeys for sale: because the population in these places, does, after a curious fashion, join in a celebration. It is pie-eyed hogwash that Islam, as interpreted by hundreds of thousands of of law-abiding, solid citizens, represents at its best, any threat. But come on, bring on more hatefulness and divisiveness and then ask us all to continue to commemorate the Holocaust, as though that miserable business had any continuing relevance in a federal Europe that even regulates radiator temperatures in private houses!

Share, peacefully, the land that you have historically shared and get a civil tongue in your heads. Religion, in an advanced civilized state of humanity, should take second seat to simple humanity.
RR

'Conversions' to what, exactly? All that everyone in the modern world should concentrate on is the central pillar of every religion and all good sense; in the words of Alexander Pope:

"The proper study of mankind is man".

or, the words of S T Coleridge:

"He prayeth best who loveth best
All things both great and small,
For the dear God who loveth us,
He made and loveth all."

I fear that the humanitarians have it over the religious freaks, whosoever, so far as I am concerned. And it is a mighty pity that the young today are not taught Coleridge and Pope but taught to worship, above all else, at the altar of useless, pizza-fed, fatboys, such as Wayne Rooney and Steve Gerrard and wear their freaking over-priced, sponsored, nylon teeshirts, denoting membership of Big-Time, Over-Paid, Over-Rated, Club Loser.

RR.

Last edited by Reckless Reggie (2010-07-03 18:25:40)