This thread is going from strength to strength. Too bad the catalyst had to be such a miserable and obscene event.

What I find most strange is the John Stuart Mill reference.

If it was Nietzsche or Hobbes maybe. JSM is so mild-mannered.

The cover photo posted along with the L.A. Times story got me wondering: If a helicopter pilot or crew member were able to get photos of the shooter in action, why weren't the police or the appropriate agency able to get a sniper / marksman up in the air over the island to take this guy out ?

It supposedly took 45 minutes for the Cops to arrive there and then, upon their command, he surrendered.  A helicopter would've taken 5 - 10  minutes to get there.

See my post, # 59, above yours.

The 'deploy and secure' sensibility that you speak of is increasingly a thing of the past.  Nevertheless, its certain that larger departments and / or larger cities have the funds to provide more responses, like air units, or specialized tactics and equipment.

The common wisdom now is to enter immediately to take down the shooter(s) even if that means doing so without any support - so thank God for those 'Cops acting aggressively'.

Its complicated and there are entire forums dedicated to this  subject alone.

Breivik, in his own words:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/07/anders-behring-breiviks-online-comments

A 1000-page manifesto of this kind of thing is the stuff of nightmares.

Last edited by K. A. Adams (2011-07-23 19:33:51)

Brevik has said his acts were gruesome but necesssary. He will appear in court tomorrow. Norway is a very liberal country, it is perhaps hard for other natinonalities to understand norwegien national pride. Norway is a very open soceity, citizens know how many people their secert services have watched for 12 months or longer, they can gain the information how much any citizen has earnt in the last tax year, from the PM to a road sweeper. From a  car number plate they can learn who owns the car, where they live. So what you may think. But this shows the amount of freedom Norwegiens enjoy, they are not the sort of people to be become hysterical over their muslim community because of acts by fundamentalists else where in the world. They have had preachers of hate here, their views are rejected by the muslim community, resulting in a facebook and TV advert campaign by muslim citizens inviting non-muslims into their homes and mosques. This is the Norwegien way. Openness and freedom. There is no sense of suspection toward any group of society from any group of society. It is the reason behind their national pride rather than a gun-ho stance towards everything that is different to their culture. This is why the whole country is really shocked that this terror has happened here. Brevik has no sense of pride in his country. His actions are based on hate.

Last edited by formby (2011-07-24 13:22:07)

Simon -

Yes, we, the U.S. , have made many, many mistakes and learned the hard way. That is why one would hope that others would pay attention and adapt based on the lessons learned.

Norway's vision of itself is truly sweet and charming and the faith that you have in each other's goodness is wonderful but it does not allow for anomalies nor the idea that there are truly evil people that seek to do you harm.

Formby - You are correct that it is nearly impossible stop a truly motivated plot. There is a mafia saying: ' Anybody can get got '

Captainpreppy - Are you seriously suggesting that, based on the Zerby case, Cops should not act aggressively in the face of an active shooter or terrorist event ?

Last edited by K. A. Adams (2011-07-24 15:39:57)