Just to extend my thinking on this -

As Cricket was a game long before it became a sport, 'Bodyline' belongs absolutely to the original 'Gentlemanly' ethos of the game.

To go further - Sportsmanship is not 'Gentlemanly'. It's for those who came later. This is like the difference between the Georgian & the Victorian 'Gentleman' - The former was the real deal & the latter was a timid Middle-Class wannabe, as befitted being the subject of our first Middle-Class Queen...

So back to Gamesmanship and to the Devil with the wet legged 'Sportsman' !

Huzzah !

No, I don’t want to have it again. I only want you to say clearly, if you will, whether the ball is in or out.

IF THE OPPONENT WEARS, OR ATTEMPTS TO WEAR, CLOTHES CORRECT AND SUITABLE FOR THE GAME, BY AS MUCH AS HIS CLOTHES SUCCEED IN THIS FUNCTION, BY SO MUCH SHOULD THE GAMESMAN'S FAIL.

Last edited by fxh (2012-05-31 14:52:29)

I don't like to watch others play with their balls.

Ehh, it's as good an outlet as any for tribalism.

This thread is as much about cynicism as sports or gamesmanship.

No reference to the activities themselves or the satisfaction in doing them well or watching them being done well.

I see no merit in breaking the rules or getting away with cheating.

Yes sport- along with other things - is used as a distraction but that is a separate issue.

Flashman,Joey Barton and Jardine versus Sir Henry Newbolt, the Duke of Wellington and muscular Christianity

There's a breathless hush in the Close to-night --
Ten to make and the match to win --
A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
An hour to play and the last man in.
And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
But his Captain's hand on his shoulder smote
"Play up! play up! and play the game!"

The sand of the desert is sodden red, --
Red with the wreck of a square that broke; --
The Gatling's jammed and the colonel dead,
And the regiment blind with dust and smoke.
The river of death has brimmed his banks,
And England's far, and Honour a name,
But the voice of schoolboy rallies the ranks,
"Play up! play up! and play the game!"

This is the word that year by year
While in her place the School is set
Every one of her sons must hear,
And none that hears it dare forget.
This they all with a joyful mind
Bear through life like a torch in flame,
And falling fling to the host behind --
"Play up! play up! and play the game!"

Sportsmanship is sooooooooooo middle-class....!!!

You can plot the downfall of the British Empire from the ascendancy of sportsmanship over gamesmanship.

Societies at their peaks tend to have well known codes of conduct that are widely adhered to.

Civilisations in decline usually find the old rules under question. Self interest trumps all and moral relativism is used to excuse what would previously have been condemned.

Merely your point of view !

The end justifies the means I think. If you win, then you're a good Gamesman. If you lose or are detected and sanctioned then you are a bad Gamesman.

At heart, Gamesmanship is really a Jesuit notion.

It's all about end results.

The Sportsman's point of view is less about winning and more about executing certain prescribed behaviours. They hope to win, but they shackle themselves with obstacles (the rules) to achieve that end.

The Gamesman has a clear objective in mind on which he is absolutely focused. His aim is to achieve that and overcome all obstacles, rather than working WITH the obstacles presented to him like a Sportsman would.


Kingstonian - What you say is true, but to produce a society at its peak usually requires the ploys of the Gamesman initially. Once the society is established then the Sportsman's point of view can take over to administer a period of placid stability. The decline that you mention which always follows at some point is in fact the creation of a new society as the Gamesman's point of view kicks into gear again to create something new. It is less to do with the decline of the old society and far more to do with the creation of that new society.

And each new society then has its new rules for the Sportsman to follow.

Gamesmen are creators and Sportsmen are administrators, in a sense.