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#1 2020-01-12 06:13:46

JJH
Member
From: Germany
Posts: 112

Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

So I‘ve been seeing a bunch of sport coats from Clipper Craft on eBay, which I think look really good. They come with all the ivy details and are usually an exceptional bargain. I never pulled the trigger though, because I have no idea how their quality holds up. The low prices obviously stem from the fact, that Clipper Craft was a run of the mill maker, mass producing their stuff, trying to cash in on the ivy hype. Now you all probably know the ivy-style article on Clipper Craft which makes fun of the very idea I mention above, e.g. the clothes coming with the right details. However, Chensvold argues „authenticity“, which is an empty concept I couldn’t give two shits about.

What I‘m interested in is the question how well stuff from Clipper Craft and similar makers is actually made. The aforementioned article cites Richard Press as an authority, claiming „low grade“ quality. Does anyone own anything from Clipper Craft who could substantiate/negate said claim?

I discussed this with a friend online. He argued, that since the quality of clothes has gone downhill overall, one may assume that even the run of the mill stuff from yesteryears could be considered well made today. Can it really?

tl;dr: Should I buy Clipper Craft or stay away?

Last edited by JJH (2020-01-12 06:46:41)

 

#2 2020-01-12 06:32:20

JJH
Member
From: Germany
Posts: 112

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

Just in case anyone doesn’t know which article I‘m talking about:
http://www.ivy-style.com/domestic-cat-remembering-clipper-craft-main-street-ivy-clothier.html

 

#3 2020-01-12 09:09:43

Berkeley_Breathes
Member
From: Crabapple Cove, ME
Posts: 4519

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

I don't have any experience with Clipper Craft. However, Richard Press is always going to be comparing anything with J. Press, which we can all agree made excellent quality, hand-tailored clothes. He's a salesman at heart - it's hard not hear the "At J. Press, however..." after his quote in that article. I wonder what Press would say about old Brooks Brothers "346" jackets and suits - they were Brooks's lower-rung garments, but they often wear more hardily after all these years than the fancier Golden Fleece/Makers stuff. I also think of Corbin or Palm Beach, which were probably closer to Clipper Craft in terms of quality than 346 and are both great options when the details are right.

Any vintage garment is compromised to some degree by age. If it looks like it's in wearable condition, without flaws which will unduly hasten its demise, and if it has all the details and styling you desire, I say go for it. It's lasted this long already, right?


"The only comment a gentleman’s outfit should generate is that he is properly dressed for the occasion" - Calvin Trillin

 

#4 2020-01-12 11:23:20

JJH
Member
From: Germany
Posts: 112

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

Thanks for your feedback, BB. Maybe I shouldn't have concentrated on my hesitation to buy any Clipper Craft so much. I'd like to broaden the discussion a little bit and concentrate on the point my friend has raised (hi, D!). As you say, Press is probably right in the sense that Clipper Craft and the likes don't hold up to J.Press standards. What present-day standard are these makers equivalent to? Are they actually of higher quality than some of the supposedly "high class" stuff being sold today as my friend's notion would have it?

Your point about the stuff having lasted up until today is important. I guess, it depends on the level of wear it got though.

 

#5 2020-01-12 11:53:10

Berkeley_Breathes
Member
From: Crabapple Cove, ME
Posts: 4519

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

Well, to my mind, there are a few factors that differentiate the majority of clothes today from even a company such as Corbin, Palm Beach, and I assume Clipper Craft:

1. Union-made in USA. These companies may have been mass-producing "Ivy" clothes, but they were doing it in American factories, to a higher standard than is found for mass-produced clothes today.
2. Clothing culture. While not every piece of clothing was "made to last" the way a J. Press coat was by any means, especially department store fashions that had their eye on the next big thing, fast fashion in the H&M sense wasn't a thing yet, so even mass-produced clothes were made to last longer, hence our being able to buy them on eBay today.
3. Taste/look. As you have said yourself, there's little functional difference between a Clipper Craft Ivy jacket and a J. Press one in appearance. Contrast this with, say, a J. Press jacket versus a Uniqlo jacket - the Uniqlo may be similar in some ways, but they aren't putting the same care into the details and construction as J. Press, and that is evident just from looking at it.

But you're also asking a different question, it seems like. Is a Clipper Craft jacket from 1960 "better quality" than a Jos. A Bank jacket today, for example? I have no idea. My guess would be yes, but not by too much. The real advantage is just in the styling. The big change in men's clothing is that cheap suits today aren't worth the hanger they're sold on, and neither are good suits necessarily worth the bank vault they cost. Because of the fact that nearly everyone (at least in urban areas) needed to wear a certain baseline of formal clothing every day in the 50s and early 60s, there was a much wider range of available options, at a much wider variety of price points. Today, a cheap suit needs to last the one job interview it's bought for, rather than needing to be the equivalent of a J. Press suit in terms of times worn, but for a very different rung on the social ladder.


"The only comment a gentleman’s outfit should generate is that he is properly dressed for the occasion" - Calvin Trillin

 

#6 2020-01-12 15:09:33

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#7 2020-01-12 16:28:48

Berkeley_Breathes
Member
From: Crabapple Cove, ME
Posts: 4519

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?


"The only comment a gentleman’s outfit should generate is that he is properly dressed for the occasion" - Calvin Trillin

 

#8 2020-01-13 03:13:46

JJH
Member
From: Germany
Posts: 112

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

 

#9 2020-01-13 19:15:50

Patrick
Member
Posts: 2653

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

I had a Clipper Craft sport coat once upon a time, when I was less, er, robust. It was on a par with Corbin or Huntington, seemed to me. Nothing exceptional but it fit and looked right. If I was still 170 pounds I'd probably still be wearing it. But I'm not.


Otter : Take it easy, I'm pre-law.
Boon : I thought you were pre-med.
Otter : What's the difference?

 

#10 2020-01-14 08:23:42

JJH
Member
From: Germany
Posts: 112

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

 

#11 2020-01-14 15:14:15

stanshall
Member
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 12991

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

not a fan of Oxxford, don't think it's too Ivy or prep, more like Midwest Trad to me


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#12 2020-01-16 03:41:31

Tomiskinky
Member
Posts: 3281

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

It’s an interesting fact that a lot of the detail we admire on the boom era sack jacket are the product of mass production. The welted seams are one such detail, this is create by the jackets being manufactured inside out and then finish once reversed. It was a Saville row tailor who told me this as they were asked to reproduce this detail and  when they looked into it discovered this was part of the construction.

Obviously plenty of examples without this detail but an interesting fact I thought

 

#13 2020-01-16 04:56:46

Berkeley_Breathes
Member
From: Crabapple Cove, ME
Posts: 4519

Re: Vintage „mass production“ or: is Clipper Craft any good?

Good point,Tom. A major difference between the American look as defined by Brooks Brothers and J. Press was, of course, that everything was off the rack, at least in theory.


"The only comment a gentleman’s outfit should generate is that he is properly dressed for the occasion" - Calvin Trillin

 
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