I genuinely think country is important here too.
I was at a cricket match at Trent Bridge a few years ago. A few rows in front of me was guy in Paraboots, Levi's and a seersucker Keydge.
I immediately  clocked him because, as some might know, when the average British male gathers to match sport it's usually an excuse to wear clothes most of us would be happy to do the garden in.
He walked past me wearing a Brooks polo and madras shorts. I simply said Keydge to him and away we went. Although totally different in appearance it all fell into the same framework.
In the USA Ivy has broader context but a different framework. For example, I couldn't imagine Vetra or Paraboot being sold at Press but in the UK it sits comfortably with button downs and natural shoulder jackets. Barbour jackets are beloved by many traditional Americans but in the UK can be a bit rugger-bugger.
To me Mod follows a pretty strict code such as lapel width whereas with Ivy fit is a bit more flexible.
In truth, I sometimes find it easier to point-out things outside the canon than trying to put down a hard set of rules.

Yes, Spendthrift you're spot on.
It's about attitude more than just a set of rules.
Some people need stuff laid out for them.
In my experience talking to guys who are into this Ivy thing of ours, clothes are usually part of something much bigger.
Film, books, art, design. Things from the past and present that just gel together.
I've been inspired by lots of posters on here but it's not some rigid framework.

Maybe we could sub-title this: 'Going Out Slightly On A Limb...'  Otherwise it's the 'Ivy Playbook'.  Patchwork Madras trousers, however, or some of those other garish, often highly priced offerings from Ralph Lauren will almost certainly be avoided by anyone and everyone in the UK.  I'd be surprised if anything like that was seen at 2 Russell Street even when JS himself might be going out on a limb.  But there are chaps posting on here who will correct me if I'm wrong.  I think JFM once referred to the Ivy Shop people, like Sir John Lally, as wearing just a single 'stand-out' item; never pushing it.

It was Ralph Lauren that led me back to the Ivy look in the nineties having flirted we unstructured Armani for a few years. Having purchased my first house a friend of mine was raving about the interior design of the Bond Street store.They’d moved from the original chemist store by Conduit Street.
I went down there one Saturday.In truth not expecting much and was subsequently blown away.Not just by the store design but by the clothes.I got chatting to one of the senior guys on the second floor and he showed me a new collection he said was inspired by JFK.It was called The Congressman.A narrow soft shouldered,3 rolled to 2, single vented jacket with flat front trousers, narrow ties that had elegant Art Deco symbols and a narrow slightly spread collared shirt.I needed work clothes so this seamed perfect.
I started shopping there regularly.All the things I liked seemed to sync together and reminded me of what I had fallen in love with in the eighties - cords, madras check shirts, loafers,seersucker, great cashmere and Shetland knitwear, tweed.The colours were always slightly brighter, more intense mixes of pattern and texture.
It was explained to me that Ralph operates on two levels. Their flagship stores focus on the full Ralph Lauren look that features a lot more tailoring, shoes and accessories and often less logos whilst their concessions are focused on quick sell items that you average Saturday shopper wants.
The size of Ralph Lauren means it covers many bases and in truth a lot doesn’t appeal to me but in their own stores you will always find some elements of the look we all love.Over the years,for me, this has included pull-over shirts,an undated patch pocket cashmere wool herringbone jacket, madras, seersucker shorts, brushed shetlands, Press flap oxfords to name a few.Nothing has a logo on it.
The quality has been excellent too.

Yes-it’s that logo and stuff being out sourced that is the problem.
There is next to nothing US made there apart from
Some shoes are Rancourt or Allen Edmonds and the mto tailoring was recently Hickey Freeman

^ You'll be okay with Ralphie, then.  I must have seen several hundred shirts around three or four weeks ago, in Chesterfield, Nottingham and Lincoln: their so-called 'vintage' shops,  Prices are around the £18 mark.  They'll probably be happy to sell for £15.  I used to buy them for work around fifteen years ago.

Didn't people in the boom years make fun of ivy wearers for having a uniform? (The man in the grey flannel suit etc.) With the vast numbers of US males wearing sack suits, repp ties etc etc, I'm sure many - very probably the majority - didn't actually put much thought into what they wore.

Breaking some arbitrary rules doesn't necessarily resolve that problem though. Some people put some effort into their outfits and look, objectively speaking, at least reasonable. Whether or not that involves following or breaking rules doesn't really come into it imo.

Last edited by Yuca (2021-11-14 13:51:19)

Many of those crappy Quad mods moved away from mod in the early 1980s to become scooterists. From bad to worse, in other words.

Last edited by Yuca (2021-11-15 13:34:37)

The skinhead 'revival' went almost hand in hand with punk rock turning much nastier and 'Mod'.  I recall a minority becoming 'Far Right'; most were fairly apolitical (i.e. they didn't understand or care much about what was going on).  A few even became more or less hippies.  Dylan, Captain Beefheart and Van Morrison (e.g.) were listened to.  The bluebeat/ska thing was also a crashing bore.  Thank God jazz was on the distant horizon - although it was certain bluesmen I began listening to first (under gentle parental influence).

I can only talk about Birmingham but the best thing that came out of the mod revival was that it put paid to the heavy metal scene that dominated the area.
The rock guys were so stuck in the late sixties. It was time like had stood still.
Mods were bizarre too.I met some who were into the British Movement but still claimed to love soul.
The jazz funk guys were optimistic and forward looking. They took on all manner of influences, consisted of black and white kids and were inclusive.

'Mods were bizarre too.I met some who were into the British Movement but still claimed to love soul.
The jazz funk guys were optimistic and forward looking. They took on all manner of influences, consisted of black and white kids and were inclusive.'

To be fair from the early to mid 80s a mod scene emerged that was closely based on the original modernist and mod scenes of the 50s and 60s, there was a little bit of ethnic diversity and they did uncover and rediscover some killer dancefloor grooves. There is definitely something fascinating about the early mod years (late 50s to 64) and I can understand why people would want to dedicate their lives to it whilst largely ignoring the music and fashions of the day. And as the 1980s came to a close, mod went from being completely unfashionable to being somewhat cool.

At the same time I would agree that the jazz funk scene was definitely more diverse and inclusive. And very probably had more chicks in attendance. But by the early to mid 1980s I think that scene died off, as its members got older and relevant new music releases were in increasingly short supply.

Last edited by Yuca (2021-11-15 13:36:24)

I was divorced by '91, bringing up a small daughter alone, and listening to people like Lucia Popp and Renata Tabaldi as well as some jazz and blues.  But I was also buying, from a back alley shack, USA-imported Levis and Pendleton shirts, the odd varsity jacket, even the Reyn Spooner kind of thing: anything to look - and feel - different.  I was also wearing Timberland boat shoes and even those awful boots.  Neither 'Mod' or 'Ivy League' entered into it.  I'd guess the kind of films I was seeing at the time played their part.  Anything, then, with Pacino or De Niro.  Woody, of course.  It lacked coherence, I'll freely admit that.  I knew no-one else other than Robert, who sold me the clothing, who was remotely interested.