I don't see that it's a choice between either a pub or a coffee shop. I personally prefer to make my own coffee at home. To go to a coffee shop seems extravagant and you rarely get chance encounters with other people. However I prefer to drink beer in a pub where chance encounters can happen all the time, or you can drink with a few mates. In my pub groups we have alcholics, teatotallers, unemployed, retired wealthy types, chefs, nurses, sailors,  artists, fishermen, bin men, graphic artists, HGV drivers, a lay preacher and all sorts. The group is also mixed sex but mainly men. What's not to like? People?

Thinking about it, I’ll happily sit on my own in an independent coffee shop. We’ve got a particularly good Italian one where they’ll naturally bring you a sparkling water with an espresso. It’s more of a ‘caff’. You’re more likely to get a bacon sandwich then biscotti. But all human life is there. Doing it’s own thing. And there’s something comforting about the clash and clang of the genuine article versus the soulless atmosphere of a chain. I don’t understand all the people I see rushing around at half eight in the morning clutching a paper coffee cup they’ve just brought for a fiver.

Pubs I don’t go in on my own. Unlike RobbieB, I fear ‘chance encounters’. Too many times I’ve sat down with a pint and a paper when some bloke decides he’s going to strike up a conversation. In coffee shops they seem to understand and respect the secret signs of happy solitude.

Woof,
Are the moleskins from the current crop? How do you rate them?
My Cordings ones are only OK.

Totally agree about differences in UK and USA outlooks but I also get the sense that there area few more guys Stateside who are getting into the look without the collegiate background. The recent Press booklet featured both Jazz and some youngsters. (For me, anyone under 40 now qualifies). There couple of guys I follow on Insta who are a bit more Mod/Ivy.

The trad obsession with Volvo's is shocking when they have the Jeep Wagoneer.

If I found a pub with a half decent wine list with some good by the glass options, that were realistically priced, I'd go to one.

Blimey how ironic, and there was me moaning back in the early 80's when Wine Bars were the places to take girls to, and finding out they didn't have a decent draught or bottled beer.

Last edited by Runninggeez (2022-01-16 15:44:41)

I have a bunch of Cordings moleskins from probably 5 to 10 years ago, they have generally been very substantial and held up well.

At any rate, the biggest difference from Ivy in the US vs UK is in the US it isn't a thing, it's just what you wore if you were from the Atlantic Seaboard and of a certain age. And by certain age I mean like a 40 or 50 year span of generations. It's not a culture beyond being middle to upper middle class. The polo shirts, Florsheims, sack coats etc were not conscious decisions, they were just what your parents dressed you in and you just kept buying it because you didn't know any different.

I probably still have some LL Bean boots and a few Jeep Wagoneers stashed somewhere to this day

You haven't completely distanced yourself from your roots 2RS. Supporting Everton shows you can never quite shake off your past.
Down south we had that culture of men standing and women and the elderly sitting at tables in a pub. That seems to have gone now. Along with standing at football matches.
In Italy when having a coffee I prefer to stand at the bar with the locals.

I will say my pubs atmosphere changes over the day and none of my crowd stay late. We are lunchtime to early evening drinkers (most of us retired). I once walked in one night when the pub seemed to be full of strangers doing drug deals  I had a pint and left.

Last edited by RobbieB (2022-01-17 01:20:02)

I don't know if any one on here thinks that cocaine use is cool? I don't but I notice it is readily available now and middle class professionals around my way seem to enjoy a weekend habit. It has led to rival local and county line gangs attacking each other in once civilised areas.

Of course the Italians like football even more than we do, I would love to go to a big Serie A game to experience the atmosphere. Sadly the record books seem to indicate that they are also better at it than us. Their fans are not averse to a spot of hooliganism either, presumably after one too many expressos.

Liverpool - Mrs Woof and I went there for the weekend during last autumn and had a great time, they certainly know how to do a Saturday night. We were struck by how friendly and inclusive it was, we ended up in conversation in every bar we visited and they were a diverse crowd to say the least.  But I know it can be somewhat different in some of the suburbs.

I can't help but agree with TRS's points. But with one fairly big caveat; It's not my real world.

I would dearly love to lead a lifestyle where I step out of my Conran designed apartment and walk to Bar Italia to talk cloth, music and politics with like minded souls for a couple of hours, before taking in The Design Museum or The V&A. Maybe stopping in at JS for a chat and to drop a few hundred. Or Soul Brother to argue the finer points of the latest re-issues. It's the idea of all this that truly inspires me. I really mean that. TRS has clearly forgotten more about Ivy League style then I'll ever know and I bow to any knowledge he, or any of you care to impart.

At the moment, right now, my life has to be square. It wasn't for the first 35 years. I hope it wont be for the last however many.

In reality I step on the Lego my child has left on the stairs, before pleading with him to put his shoes on, and walking him to school and going off to my (part time) job. Maybe stopping in at TKMaxx or 101 collectors records to wonder how much further into my overdraft I'll go. All before school pick up, getting his tea ready and watching Pokemon. Sometimes. Very occasionally, I get to go to a pub with mates and neighbours. We don't sit round belching or end up falling face down in our kebabs. Or if I choose, I'll sit quietly on my own and enjoy a coffee. Depressing right? Well, No. Because I love it. It's the best thing I ever did and I'm lucky to have it. See RobbieB's question above. I did. And I thought it was. It wasn't.

Running along all this I have a true appreciation and love of 'The Look' and attitudes around it. Including most of the US,UK and continental slants that have weaved their way into it. Have done since I was twelve, and I'm now staring down the barrel that is fifty. But what should I do for this bit? Grab some joggers from Primark until he's gone off to Uni and the mortgage is paid off? There's nothing to be gained by dragging my family and friends into it. And especially not by keeping out of their activities because my mind is on higher things. As doghouse says above, and KingstonIan elsewhere. At the heart of it, it's just clothes. If any semblance of 'coffee culture' is to be tied in with doghouse's points above, it comes with a side order of donuts doesn't it?

Family is far more important than clothes or lifestyle. So Spendthrift’s pragmatism is commendable.

Agree Robbie, Health is Wealth.

I have three older cousins that bought places in Spain over 30 years ago. Two of them lived there, didn't learn the language, had bi-annual visits from family which tailed off over the years. Eventually they returned to the UK with not much in the way of assets and as Woof says are now living in reduced circumstances, in old age.My third cousin has a holiday home and is now a bit too old to visit it. He wants to sell but one son has a sentimental attachment to the place and with two young children he wants his dad to keep it.
I saw a TV programme two days ago where an old couple were looking to move to Spain. The woman had never been to Spain before and the man had only visited in his youth. They didn't speak Spanish. They were planning to spend their life savings to move to a one donkey village. Someone should have talked them out of it.

Last edited by RobbieB (2022-01-17 07:07:42)