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#101 2022-01-18 13:16:52

Kingston1an
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Posts: 4180

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Ian Nairn was very good. Visited Northern football towns though he had no interest in football -Huddersfield and Preston (which he liked). Also appreciated canals. Lived happily Pimlico in a postwar estate but died early due to alcohol.

I also like Clifton Taylor. Far more traditional and tweedy and insistent on the use of local materials - but his books on English towns are marvellous. Trying to tick them all off.

Last edited by Kingston1an (2022-01-18 13:19:14)


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#102 2022-01-18 13:23:38

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Clifton-Taylor's book on the parish church as a work of art is superb.

 

#103 2022-01-18 13:32:49

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

I tackled Lees-Milne's diaries last year.  All of them.  Fascinating but one gets tired of the seemingly never-ending parade of snobbish homosexuals. 
I can never walk round an English churchyard without thinking of Clifton-Taylor and his insistence on local materials: slate for example. 
Nairn can be watched with profit on Youtube.  His book on London is now quite expensive.

 

#104 2022-01-18 13:52:00

Kingston1an
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Posts: 4180

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

I take the Clifton Taylor books with me often on multiple visits. Looking at mathematical tiles in Lewes for example. He might be too ‘Antiques Roadshow’ to be cool. He is also on YouTube. Warwick, for example, which we visited though the church closed early so we missed it. He makes interesting points regarding the authenticity of black and white timber frame buildings.

Derby still has the Joseph Wright of Derby paintings and - for drinkers - Bass from the jug. Though Bass is a shadow of what it was and is mostly of nostalgic interest.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#105 2022-01-18 17:15:57

Tworussellstreet
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Posts: 599

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Nairn also loved Liverpool. It does have some fine architecture but, as an alcoholic, he found the advanced working class drinking culture irrestible and loved the city's many, bloody awful dreary places IMO, pubs. Typical middle class ponce fetishizing an 'authentic' culture.

I wore Bass Weejuns in Goodison Park in 1989. It felt all wrong. The shoes symbolised my new life of in-the-know metropolitan sophistication, and my beloved Goodison was part of another world, the place where I found joy, and occasional misery, as a teenager. On the rare occasions I return these days, it's scuffed up desert boots and a general low-key slouchy look, not a patch of red in sight.

 

#106 2022-01-18 17:26:10

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4180

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Yet Ian Nairn hated the Munich Octoberfest. He was almost moved to violence. See YouTube.

I love Munich. Never been to Octoberfest but they have some magnificent beer gardens (and beer halls of course).

Nuremberg was also great for pubs on our brief stop and Bamberg was splendid.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#107 2022-01-19 01:17:28

RobbieB
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Posts: 2219

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

I'm an Ian Nairn fan as well. One chapter of his book describes St Peter and St Paul church in old Dagenham. This was our family church so I was pleased when he included this modest building in his work. Across the road is the Cross Keys pub which he may have visited. The pub is rumoured to be connected to the church by a secret tunnel.
Old Dagenham village was demolished in the late sixties/early seventies to make way for a brave new world of more council housing. The authorities claimed the old buildings were unsafe and beyond repair. Not true of course. It was just an act of barbarism.
The pub is still open for business I'm pleased to say.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#108 2022-01-19 03:01:51

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Much wrecking was done in the name of 'progress' as the late Gavin Stamp reminds us in the majority of his books.  London, Glasgow, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne - the list goes on and on.  Fashionable ideas (mostly nonsensical) and car culture were partly to blame.  Also a lethal combination of spite, stupidity and greed. 
Nairn's heart was basically in the right place, but anyone interested in London should read Geoffrey Fletcher: 'The London Nobody Knows' etc.  Then, of course, there is the incomparable Pevsner.  Betj? - often too much of a good thing.  But his daughter, posing naked for 'Private Eye'...  I keep it by the side of my chair...

 

#109 2022-01-19 03:08:19

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4180

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

‘London nobody knows’ was also a film with James Mason doing the commentary.Poor souls down on their luck and living in hostels. Cardinal Cap alley next to the new Globe theatre etc.....

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5h8w0m

Last edited by Kingston1an (2022-01-19 03:23:54)


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#110 2022-01-19 03:13:16

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

^ Right.  And one about Lambeth? 
Talking of Wright Of Derby (who tried his luck in Liverpool, I think), handling his sketch-books back in 1993 was a highlight of my life.  I did six months voluntary work at the museum and art gallery, beginning in Fine Art before moving onto Antiquities.  I had to wear white gloves and use a soft pencil for note-taking.  The door was locked behind me, the visiting public not allowed near.  Something of a trial as I happened to be a heavy smoker at the time!

 

#111 2022-01-19 03:29:06

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4180

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

‘We are the Lambeth Boys’ ? 1959.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#112 2022-01-19 05:02:23

RobbieB
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Posts: 2219

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

John Rogers on You Tube is worth watching for his walks in and around London. He often seems to go unprepared except for old maps but the films are interesting nonetheless. He has covered areas that people living just a mile or two away don't know about.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#113 2022-01-19 05:08:06

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

I suppose visual literacy unites us on TI. Attention to detail and noticing things around us that Joe Public might miss.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#114 2022-01-19 05:11:07

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

I'll take a look at those, Robbie.
On TRSs recommendation, last year, I took a look at footage of NYC in the 1960s.  Excellent.
Most people live in places but know nothing about what's happening in the next street let alone a couple of miles away.  Passive viewing has long since replaced any curiosity about the world around us, let alone - in Peter Laslett's words - the world we have lost.

 

#115 2022-01-19 06:51:09

Tworussellstreet
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Posts: 599

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Gavin Stamp was essentially a fogey. The major British cities were mauled by the Luftwaffe. There was a need to rebuild and rehouse. The 60s was a time for looking ahead, not wallowing in nostalgia. They should have knocked down more tedious Victoriana and designed more spectacular, optimistic, dynamic contemporary buildings. It was a missed opportunity. By the 70s the age of cynicism and irony was well under way.

 

#116 2022-01-19 07:12:27

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

How can I express this politely?  TRS is clearly talking out of his backside here.  Many places that were untouched by bombing nonetheless were senselessly knocked about.  Point one.  Much that was dire came in the wake of the Festival Of Britain.  Point two.  Much Victoriana was admittedly tedious but many fine medieval, classical and Regency buildings went too. 
In Newcastle, T.Dan Smith, as has been said, aimed at remodelling the city into something like Milan.  It's reckoned to be somewhat more like Croydon. 
TRS have crossed swords before over this.  The debate is not acrimonious.  It's not even very personal.  But, as I say, he's talking out of his arse.

 

#117 2022-01-19 07:13:29

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

^ I suppose there should have been a Point three there.  Bollocks.

 

#118 2022-01-19 07:25:50

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Actually, to be fair, a good many of the problems faced by British towns and cities pre-dated even 1914.  Then, between the wars, slum clearance programmes were often carried out very tardily.  A change of political complexion on the corporation and you were often back at square one.  My parents were unable to sell their house in 1970 because the entire area was due for demolition.  Most of it still stands today - forlorn, but it still stands.  There was some meddling and tinkering around the edges but nothing more drastic until a major new road was put through. 
TRS, even avowed Modernists like the Smithsons held the Euston Arch in high regard - demolished under the instructions of that old fraud McMillan.

 

#119 2022-01-19 07:39:24

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

BTW, Sir John Summerson (another 'fogey', no doubt) in 'The Classical Language Of Architecture' reveals himself as an admirer of Le Corbusier.

 

#120 2022-01-19 08:03:55

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

… and let’s not forget the impact made by roadbuilding in the 60s and 70s. The rail system was decimated and freight shifted onto the roads, car ownership mushroomed. Local authorities rushed to carve fast roads and roundabouts through town and cities with the vision that private car use would bring about a utopia of personal mobility and freedom. Where the local road layout didn’t lend itself to these ideas whole swathes of buildings were razed in pursuit of the ideal. The damage wasn’t just in cities, the characters of quiet little towns were completely altered by a dual carriageway running through their centre cutting off neighbourhoods. Then they realised that the more roads you build the more unnecessary journeys people make, all looks pretty silly now.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#121 2022-01-19 08:12:13

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

^ As Betj said, of small towns, 'Traffic changes everything'.  There is still loose talk of a by-pass here: stupid, meaningless talk.  In the meanwhile, heavy traffic from around Manchester (and, almost certainly, further north) comes pounding along a road that was built for horses and people exclusively. 
Derby took around fifty or more years to complete its inner ring road, but in that instance heavy traffic was passing through basically late Anglo-Saxon streets before heading for either a medieval causeway across the Trent else a rather shaky bridge. 
Small wonder Nairn termed Derby a mess in 1967.  It hasn't improved.  Not a bit.

 

#122 2022-01-19 08:16:13

Kingston1an
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Posts: 4180

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

Few places are as bad as Croydon. Certainly not Newcastle. Two huge office buildings I used to visit in Croydon have now been repurposed as accommodation - which seems pointless if the jobs are not there now. The Croydon shopping centres are also in trouble. Croydon also has plans for even taller skyscrapers.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#123 2022-01-19 08:18:59

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

The Victorians, of course, were often shocking vandals, with little idea about conservation or much else in the way of architectural development.  But when they got something right, it tended to be superb.  Their blundering arrogance was sometimes tempered by their hearts (and wallets) being in exactly the right place.  Churches they often should have left alone - and certainly not built too many new ones.  Thank heaven, in that instance, for William Morris and his anti-scrape instincts.  A.N. Wilson (a 'young fogey' this time) described the architecture of the Natural History Museum as 'camp'.  It may well be.

 

#124 2022-01-19 08:20:13

AFS
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Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

I think the Milan/Croydon comment was by way of a joke.  Possibly Stamp.

 

#125 2022-01-19 08:23:27

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: WHAT UNITES US...

What did the 1960s bring of merit in any British city?  I like the GPO Tower well enough.  Anything else spring to mind?  London architecture was seen as pretty bad by Pevsner, Summerson et al. particularly in the West End and around the Victoria/Chelsea area.

 

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