I suppose I never get tired of discussing the double breasted suit. I was asked about it's possible reasons for being more popular in the 1930s-40s than now. Here were some of my thoughts. Apologies in advanc if the flow is a bit choppy. I lifted most of it from my posts elsewhere and tried to eliminate parts that would not make sense out of the original context:
Seems the younger English guys wore them because the walrus moustached set that sent them out to die in Flanders did not. Mustve been fun to wear those vulgar double breasted's while the monocled set were scandalized by terms like right-o and 22-skadoo.
Then they were imported by the Duke of Windsor, who was his set's poster boy, over here. Maybe the depression solidified the style because it was more cloth to cover up the feeling of vulnerability. The style has more buttons and covering which has a connection to control. The people who could afford to get dressed up could afford to spend the time to get dressed up; and then button and unbutton their suits all day.
You might have had to pay slightly more for the DB suit's extra cloth (The 3 piece was also popular at this time so maybe it was the same idea). At a time when the high life was vaunted and elegance/formality were in vogue, movie stars emulated aristos and the movie goers emulated the Stars.
And while more formal to American eyes, the DB has the odd duality of being youthful and a bit supercilious. I have the image not only of the uptight wearing it but also the hero with a spring in his step and the girl on his arm, the gun toting gangster and the precocious bookworm.
In some ways the movies of the 1930s are what united us and defined the American attitude and character for the modern age. It is interesting that this suit, the DB, could be in some ways the most American of suits and yet the most alien of outfits for the common man.
There are undoubtedly many reasons why people wore the double breasted suit more back then, some of which are forgotten. Decisions are made within the boundaries of a time frame and the double breasted suit made sense for men back then because it made you stylish. Perhaps climate played a part; no central heating and people's bodies got colder easier.
But I think the stylishness issue cannot be discounted. In the eyes of peers and women, being current and stylish was important. I see people discount fashion on the boards but we are all influenced by it, no matter how bravely we assert otherwise. The difference may be that that rather than let fashion lead us, we allow it to to give us suggestions.
People had more time to be fashionable then too. Today, most men do not want to be dealing with all those buttons while running hither and thither. That may be why the single breasted suit is so popular, it gives elegance/formality without extra buttons to fiddle with.
Which brings up a theory. Part of the reason the DB suit survives is that wearing it means you have authority and time. The Time to button and unbutton your suit because your subordinates do that for you.
When it comes to something like the double breasted, you are talking about attitude, maybe clout. To dress confidently, you have to be confident. There is no requirement to be confident. As a matter of fact, I think no matter what you choose, your state of mind and personality will shine through eventually.
I wear double breasted suits because my personality is bold enough that people don't even notice I am wearing one. Additionally, my wardrobe looks like I chose everything and only me. Another man might strike someone as having been dressed by someone else.
A friend of mine once asked me to select suits/shirts/ties for him, which i did. But he didn't like my choices. Without thinking about it I was choosing things that suited him. But he wanted the things I wore. So I chose that the things that I would wear for him. The result was a disaster. People were asking me when I had started dressing him, or when did he raid my wardrobe? It had never occurred to me that deeply that standard items could "belong" to someone. No one had ever resented me wearing these clothes but they were too bold for this other guy's mild demeanor.
Lesson learned and I wont choose things for people unless they really ask and then only on the forums!
Some people don't want this effect. Some men, maybe many, live in apprehension of being looked at.
The bottom line for most men, is dressing to gain respect, get people's money, get the approval of his peers and get along with prospective lovers. And though most men don't want to look like slaves to fashion, many want to look fashionable. Somehow, the double breasted is a little too unique for the average American man. I think they appreciate and admire it on others but the vast majority wouldn't wear it.
Maybe that is why the single breasted, peak lapel is popular. It has the elegance of the double breasted but hasn't any of the fussy associations. If you think about it, the SBPL is one movement away from becoming a double breasted suit. So men want the elegance but are unwilling to trail blaze.
And, even as I say this, I think we are in a very experimental period. One where people are telling the industry what they want rather than the industry telling them what they should wear. that coupled with corporations just happy to see men wearing suits again may herald another double breasted suit era.
Another barrier is I think that most modern day DBs are poorly proportioned and badly fitted.
I like the look of double breasted suits but I've never owned one. I have several double breasted coats (Pea coats, East German Police Motorcyclist Leather etc.) and I like the military look of them. One of the things that has put me off having one made up is that when you get hot (which I do) and you undo the buttons it ruins the look, you have this flap of material just flapping away, they just don't seem to hang right undone. I appreciate that you can just take the bloody thing off but there may be occasions were you have nowhere to hang it and are left carrying the jacket about. I've seen a brown chalk stripped Minnis flannel that's screaming for the DB treatment and I'm very tempted to get it knocked up and sod utility...
Brown chalk stripe
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardyminnis/asp/catqu_view.asp?stki=160115009?
Ha, yes I'm English but I live in the Northwest of England and I don't work in the city of London, so I can pretty much wear whatever coloured suitings I want. I like the darker browns and the Minnis flannels have a beautiful sheen to them. I have a sport coat made out of the dark blue plaid it really is a beautiful cloth. I also like the dark brown plaid that Minnis do as well, I've seen a suit length of it and it's a killer cloth, incredibly rich the pictures don't do justice to it.
FNB, have you any experience with the H&S flannel the super 140's with cashmere and mink? My tailor has the book and I was thumbing through it the other day. I was thinking of getting some trousers made from it, not for everyday use but just for occasional use to wear dining out etc.
Minnis Blue Plaid
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardyminnis/asp/catqu_view.asp?stki=507942479?
Minnis killer brown plaid
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardyminnis/asp/catqu_view.asp?stki=404243934?
^ Yeah I know, and it's only their mid-range weight...ha..!! Actually it doesn't wear that hot, well not on me anyway, I have my tailor cut it in a very soft, relaxed style (Ivy perhaps...) which I think is the best way to cut flannel as it's not a traditional business suiting. I love the stuff, it has such an old world opulence to it. I also wear it at work, people tend to like it because they don't know what it is. I've only ever had one neg. comment from someone who said "...here's the bloke in the felt suit..." but he was polywool wearing geek and was quickly cut down to size. I kind of fancy myself as a modern day Earl of Rochester lording it over everyone in my fiefdom in the North of England....
To be honest the vast majority of English men don't have a clue about cloth, especially nowadays and it wouldn't surprise me if this hasn't always been the case. We English just pick something we like (basically point at it and nod), or we'll let the tailor show us a selection which he thinks is fit for the purpose we specify and we just pick the colour and pattern that we like, the English hate to be seen as nerdy and would hate to be seen as having even the remotest interest in anything as prosaic as cloth, in his mind he's paying the tailor to filter out the inappropriate stuff. This is the value added that Saville Row tailors add. They know the the right cloth, detail and cut for practically any occasion requiring tailored clothes, ceremonial or otherwise. People sometimes don't realise that. Skill and knowledge manifest themselves in many ways.
FNB, I just picked the flannel purely and simply because I liked it, I'm typically English, if it's too hot to wear it, then I'll wear a lighter weight cloth. I've no problem wearing lightweights. The jacketing I asked your advice on regarding shirtings for example is about 8-9oz so I don't follow the mantra preached on the other fora about heavy weights being inherently better, even though my tailor prefers working with them he also has good things to say about some of the light weights as well and I trust his advice implicitly because he earns his living working with the stuff...
FNB, your new suit with the Jolly Roger lining, what cloth is that...?
I cannot see anybody being so rushed that the extra effort to button a double breasted jacket is a consideration. There must be other factors at play.
Double breasted would not faze me but they were more popular in previous decades.
I used to find lapel curl on double breasted overcoats irritating though.
I have a double breasted suit in a black with white rope stripe on order at the moment. It's a new design from the Harrisons Grand Cru book and has a wonderful feel. My preference is for cleanly cut double breasted suits for work unless I'm trying to look less formal in which case I'll revert to a single breasted suit. I might like the look of a windowpane double breasted suit in abstract but I'm certain that if I had it made I would lack the courage to wear it to work.
Last edited by yachtie (2008-06-04 15:53:49)
Last edited by yachtie (2008-06-04 17:49:15)
Last edited by Nemesis (2008-06-05 04:06:24)