As the wearer of the items quoted by Russell today at the top of his post (along with vintage US weejuns, 'frank sinatra' G9 and Persol 714 folding sunglasses with replacement blue Steve MacQueen lenses) I think the key has to be the look.

That might sound strange from someone who's been up against it this week with LL Bean and Bass harping on about Heritage. But hey they are originals and they are squandering it. In the absence of originals I have no problem seeking out The Look as Russell calls it wherever it may be found.

A few weeks ago I went into Brooks in Regent St for the first time. I had never bothered to go in because post M&S i'd lost interest in their modern stuff. However, I thought I should at least check it out and see.

What a lot of crap. Halfway between M&S for those of a fat wallet, and a disney theme store (in keeping with the rest of Regent St).

I thought as I was nearby I'd get some T shirts from Uniqlo. So what did I find there? Just Linen mix 3/2 roll summer blazers (in Early Feb!) with welted seams et al, in baby blue, navy and pink. Like something from a South Carolina mens store in 1962. I picked up the two blues, 40 quid each. Here was a Japanese fast turnover clothing store closer to the look than the old guy up the road who virtually invented it. The very look that I'd gone into Brooks for without the least real thought that I might find it.

So, unlike some on AAAT I demand the heritage be protected but I won't wear a Brooks Brothers jacket made of pressed grass and caramac (that's a sickly 70s fake chocolate for no UK readers) just because it has Brooks label, and I won't not buy something that is closer to the Look simply because it's made in the far east.

Like I said to the Bass lady, it's not about making offshore, it's about lowering the quality when they go there. So if Brooks, Bass et al make that off shore move, AND they get their own look 'wrong' what's the point? Why not just buy the stuff from other sources, all made in the same factories.

I do disagree with Russell on Ralphy though. Through the many wilderness years there was only one source of the look for many of us and regardless of the terrace wear, the fat slob on holiday or the second hand car salesmen, there is still some thing RL gets right a lot of the time.

To my mind, if you have the heritage you're mindless crazies to ruin it. But to get the style you want, it doesn't matter where the source is (I have a pair of flat front navy moleskins from M&S that are just too short in right kind of way and when I saw them, after browsing by accident, i bought them - what do I care if they came from M&S? Someone got it right that time).

And i think personally that that IS the difference between style and fashion - imagination.

Last edited by TheWeejun (2009-03-15 09:55:04)

Good points Chetmiles.

Let's face it , we'd all love to be able to click on one of Tony Vetresca's fantastic vintage ads and then 'add to cart'. Then the conversation about heritage / copies, etc would be a moot point.

As we all live in the real world, we all make those decisions about what to buy/wear based on what's on offer, don't we?

Personally I love it when I find something in the most unusual place that fits with the style I love. Probably comes from the days of vinyl hunting - the best records never came from the most obvious sources. That's what keeps the magpie in us all happy. John Simons is the same. He's not precious about the origin/brand but he is about the look, the cut, the cloth etc. To my mind that's the right balance.

Beautiful, Jim - it goes spinning off in all directions, hence its endless fascination.

The Finsbury Shannon Nubuck looks nice.

Going French - if you'll pardon the expression, Jim, because it sounds slightly risque, oui? - seems to fit the broader Ivy tradition perfectly.  I would't part with the two Keydge slack jackets I bought from John for the world; and they are a far classier jacket than some of the 30-plus year old American stuff I've had, hook vent, lapped seams, half lining and all.  If it's well chosen...

I think in the end a sack jacket is a sack jacket. Plain front pants are plain front pants. I lament the slide of the heritage brands because often times in the United States these are the cheapest options for new clothes. I do seek out and wear vintage versions of these when I can find it because I have no other choice. That being said I will buy chinos from wherever, jackets, shirts etc. from wherever if I think they fit into my personal conception of the style. It would be a shame if I had to import European sources of some of the basics, but I wonder if the demise of these brands isn't forcing me to come to that. I will certainly wear any version of a Weejun style loafer before I accept a Bass Dover. This may sound alarmist but I can't help but wonder if I should start buying things in bulk to ensure that I will be able to have them when I want or need them. I am envious that some of you have all these other options from England, France, etc. I have to just find what I can from the internet or the odd item at JCrew or Target of all places. I have no issues giving my money to them as they are at least honest about what they are, too many heritage brands just want to use their name and feel no need or desire to understand why their name meant anything to us in the first place. I'm rambling terribly, and will blame it on the hangover. Hopefully this makes a bit of sense.

Celebrate your youth, Tim!  I'm sure you're far from stupid, it's just a matter of trawling through a lot of charity shops and Ebay sites to find what you're after.  My favourite flat-fronted chinos came from the Oxfam shop three minutes from where I live, so it just goes to show.  John, Jeff and Ken will always guide the genuine punter - I think the Hartford shirts with the soft collar are very nice.

yes the LOOK is the most important facet of a garment

but I wish a brand like Bass would go back to using good full grain calf, and sell a "premium" version

or do the DREADED Bassx"insert designer" collaboration and do the above mentioned "premium" version using fine calf etc.  So you have The Look and the quality.

I could see Bass x Band of Outsiders being successful, as BoO is one of the hottest labels doing Americana and it would be a natural fit with Bass shoes.  BoO is already doing a Sperry collaboration making their version of the boat shoe so why not a more formal shoe (loafer)

^^ really?  that is actually good news as I've liked the shoes Opening Ceremony has done in the past.  I'm looking forward to this collab, and I'm not usually a fan of collabs

hopefully they keep it traditional as much as possible.  If it's in line with OCs pricing, I'd guess these will be in the $350 range

TESCO??? blah.....it's a fine place to get some steaks but those are the only cow by-product I'd expect from there