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#1 2006-12-06 06:46:12

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Just for the other side of the coin.

Before we start I don't actually believe that we are really seeing that much of a revival at the moment, btw. Maybe it will happen & spread out from the MBs... I don't know. What is on offer at the moment has a very limited appeal I should think...
Not the clothes (which I love), but the way that they are being interpreted on the forums.
I thought 'Preppy' was pretty unattractive and I think that the re-working of Preppy into 'Trad' makes the style even more niche. It's narrowing down, down, down into a petit bourgeois neo-conservative uniform.
The style is currently in the sh*t in the U.S.
In the U.K. it has its mixed bag of die-hard followers and limps along.
In Japan it's doing fine...

BUT!

Remember the good old days when even in the States it was young & hot & full of life?
A style associated with youth, energy and all dem things?

No, me neither.

But I can read (Just about) & talk to older guys who were around and, yes, it turns out that (once upon a time) Ivy was indeed cool & even edgey.
A nice thought.
Odd that this aspect is never revived...
Well, people get what they want.
If they want a uniform - Good for them.

However -  The real boom years were the 50's/60's in the U.S. Maybe '55 to '65 mainly? ( I'm guessing here).
In the U.K. the best years for Ivy would have been (when?) 67-69 at the Ivy Shop? Austins will have done well in the late '50's early '60's too... One day John Simons will write a book & we'll know all these things for sure.
Anyway, in the U.S. '55-'65 are the golden years of Ivy I think, & the years when all that lovely money was made by all those lovely shops.

I honestly  think that the 'Preppy' thing in the early '80's was just a little blip. Very short lived. But it left behind a 'handbook' so it now seems much more than it was.
To be sure, money was made out of Preppy but nothing like the money that was made out of Ivy. 85% of men's clothing sales in the U.S. back in the day? Surely that's enough.

So those are the days that I think have the most to offer for fans of the Ivy League style.

But I'm happy to be told otherwise.

t.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#2 2006-12-06 07:00:51

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

That book on preppie drinks described the Handbook as, in reality, marking the end of the preppie phenomenon. This makes a lot of sense, since the 1980s were a pastiche of Ivy and little more than a fashion wave. If that description is true, then the Handbook is essentially a historical document, or maybe an obituary of sorts.

 

#3 2006-12-06 07:22:47

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

The analysis of Preppy in 'Tipsy in Madras' is very good I think.
The history is nicely & quickly presented.
Yes, it was all about  fashion, but then Ivy in the 50's/60's was fashionable too.
I think the difference is that the Preppy  phemonenon was the creation of journalists looking towards the 'Official Sloane Ranger Handbook' & cataloging a style as an exercise in Sunday supliment style writing. The Ivy style of the 50's was less contrived (although still of course marketed, manipulated & sold like any other product).
The Sloan Ranger book is the same as the OPH, ditto The Young Fogey handbook: Journalism.

Who ever called themselves 'Preppy' before the OPH? Very few I'm sure. Yes, the word is in 'Love Story' as a put-down,  but who went around self describing themselves as such? If they did they were probably being ironic.
'Trad' is a similar thing. Who called anything or anyone 'Trad' in 2003? In Japan, yes. In the U.S? Come off it. There was Trad Jazz in England in the 50's but that's nothing to do with anything. 'Trad' is a Japanese term adopted in the US on the MBs for the old Ivy style.

Actually to be fair 'Trad' is just a fragment of the Ivy Style. A sliver. And it does confuse people who might not know the big picture of TNSIL. Just look at AAAT (NO offence).

t.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#4 2006-12-06 09:18:43

Get Smart
Member
Posts: 1106

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Thom Browne seems to be spearheading a nu-preppy revival or sorts, like him or hate him.  I for one am really interested in seeing what his collaboration with Brooks Bros next fall will bring.  Unforuntately, I think this will be the closest thing you get to a revival of an ivy style.

 

#5 2006-12-06 09:34:01

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

 

#6 2006-12-06 09:44:20

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Last edited by Terry Lean (2006-12-06 11:01:38)


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#7 2006-12-06 09:53:39

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#8 2006-12-06 19:03:20

tom22
Member
Posts: 295

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

I think I'm quoting Whit Stillman from some interview: But the preppy era ended with the market crash in 1929 and the Depression that followed. nothing was ever the same after that.  I know some of the people who can vouch for that.

 

#9 2006-12-06 19:24:39

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

 

#10 2006-12-06 19:52:44

tom22
Member
Posts: 295

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

My own impression is that the people who own the style are all in their 70s, 80s and 90s. Their kids don't have an ounce of the style that their parents wear like an old tweed jacket. Prep schools I guess have some of the same taste today. But true Ivy style was a pre WWII thing.

Last edited by tom22 (2006-12-06 19:53:36)

 

#11 2006-12-06 21:42:37

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

 

#12 2006-12-07 03:59:35

Horace
Member
Posts: 6432

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#13 2006-12-07 04:01:57

Horace
Member
Posts: 6432

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#14 2006-12-07 04:03:58

Horace
Member
Posts: 6432

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#15 2006-12-07 04:07:33

Horace
Member
Posts: 6432

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#16 2006-12-07 07:05:13

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

The '85%' quote is John Simons quoting a US menswear magazine.
I'll repost it.

t.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#17 2006-12-07 09:11:00

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

From: The Soul Stylists. Paolo Hewitt. 2000. Mainstream Publishing.

John Simons talks about the Ivy Boom years in the US. He has them really starting in a big way in the early '50's -

"The Americans tried to give an aristocratic look to everyone. It was an egalitarian culture. They wanted everyone to have an equal opportunuty. So in America, everybody wore Ivy league. I read in an American menswear magazine that 85 per cent of the business was in the Ivy League look. Huge money was turned over. They didn't have a tradition so in a sense it gave everyone a tradition. Ye Olde Ivy League look. The shield on the jacket pockets, everything referred to a subliminal tradition."

An English point of view on if America did or didn't have a 'tradition', of course.

t.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#18 2006-12-07 13:20:00

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

 

#19 2006-12-07 19:21:10

tom22
Member
Posts: 295

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

who is John Simons? I have no idea. I do know a little about clothing in an Ivy league city. There were a number of clothiers within walking distance of the Yale campus into the 70s. Saks fifth Avenue had a branch on York St. Rosenbergs was still a real store. Press was Press. Gentree was on York. The Yale Coop had  a very good sack selection. There was another men's store very near there. Whites was on Chapel. Ensons is one of the only survivors. barrie's the shoe shop had a small space in the press store.
    It began to change with Yale's changing in the 60s. they accepted smarter people and they accepted people from a different social class. The faculty changed as well. It used to be culled form Yale Grads but Kingman Brewster felt they needed a faculty with a national reputation. The people who used to be New Haven natives, who started the Country Club, were members of the Lawn Club, were invited to be members of the Assembly dropped in number in the 60s and beyond. very smart people now but they don't have the aspiratioons or the connections (and I suppose have little interest). Yale went coed in the 70s. Not claiming there was a connection but it definitely completely changed in that era.
    Today there are three clothing stores of note in New Haven (well maybe a fashion forward Raggs makes four). Only Ensons and Press are the old school. a nice shoe store has replaced Barries run by its former employees. There are other stores, but they are college kids stores, not stores for adults.

Last edited by tom22 (2006-12-09 13:46:59)

 

#20 2006-12-08 01:25:59

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

John Simons is pretty much THE Ivy League guy in Europe.
A great enthusiast of the style who has championed the look for the last 40 plus years over here.
Very knowledgeable but not an American, so his point of view is that of an 'outsider' compared to yours Mr. tom.

I really enjoyed your post. A lot to think about in there.

t.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#21 2006-12-09 14:55:15

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

 

#22 2006-12-10 03:01:06

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

I enjoyed that, Sir -
Thanks for posting.

t.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#23 2006-12-10 03:23:44

Horace
Member
Posts: 6432

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

What was it that Abbie Hoffman said about Pat Boone and his white bucks?


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#24 2006-12-10 14:45:01

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

 

#25 2006-12-10 14:56:01

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: The Ivy League Style: The Boom Years.

Interesting as ever, Tony.
I like all the tangents & add-ons to Ivy - That big picture is what interests me.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

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