Film Noir Buff Style Forum / The Faux Homosexual Modernist

Blucher · 2012-01-24 02:22:45

I've read a number of references over the years, about the kind of chap who might have shopped at 'Vince', but more likely got into debt with his tailor. A Fred Perry man he almost certainly was not. George Melly discusses him. Angie Bowie pokes gentle fun at him. Some were gay, others were trade: a way of 'stepping up the tailoring'. Maybe it was a North London/Soho phenomenon; who knows? Did they really wear suits and eye-liner?

woofboxer · 2012-01-24 02:51:03

Did you have anyone in mind here?

Blucher · 2012-01-24 03:00:10

Can't recall any names, but when Bowie was still Jones he - allegedly - mixed in these circles: Soho/Marshall Street.

woofboxer · 2012-01-24 03:13:07

Some great photos here of the Pretty Things et al.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/gallery … mp;index=0

Oo Bop Sh'bam · 2012-01-24 03:23:01

Like with Miles, he is/was a complete fashionista. Cheers for the link though Woofy.

Yuca · 2012-01-24 04:03:42

From what I've read: the original mod(ernists) where inspired by gays because the gays were into flamboyant clothing. Much like the inspiration from Americans, Europeans and Jamaicans: these people were into looking good so they inspired. At the same time, the out gays were not part of the modernist scene - presumably being out was far too radical a move in the early 60s UK for these people to be able to interact comfortably in a hetero environment, plus the gays had their own world, just as the mods did.

At the same time, I'm sure many gays who were unwilling/unable to come out must have felt attracted to the mod scene.

Last edited by Yuca (2012-01-24 04:09:15)

Yuca · 2012-01-24 04:09:00

http://jackthatcatwasclean.blogspot.com … -duce.html

Oo Bop Sh'bam · 2012-01-24 04:09:32

I reckon they were all leathered up and well hidden in the Rocker gangs. Quick fumble under the Pier and then back up to Marine Parade to get their hands all over some young Mods.

Hard Bop Hank · 2012-01-24 04:15:23

A very English silhouette, this hourglass thing, lots of waist suppression, a nipped in waist, sometimes even "flared skirting", flared sleeves and trouser bottoms...

High button stance, longer jackets. Equestrian details such as slanted pockets and outer ticket pockets, fancy butterfly cuffs and slanted or stepped trouser bottoms...

I think it might have been an extension of the New Edwardian style à la Bunny Rogers that was most popular between 1948 and 1953.

The John Steed look in the 60s is similar, isn't it?

And that 1962 City Gent Look that was popular with some mods is also quite similar:

Probably throughout the 1950s and 1960s:

From 1959: England starts the bell shaped line

from 1968

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/in … 9&st=0

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/in … &st=54

No idea where the make up comes from... Maybe from actors? The theatre scene in Soho?

Hard Bop Hank · 2012-01-24 06:49:40

Yuca wrote:
From what I've read: the original mod(ernists) where inspired by gays because the gays were into flamboyant clothing. Much like the inspiration from Americans, Europeans and Jamaicans: these people were into looking good so they inspired. At the same time, the out gays were not part of the modernist scene - presumably being out was far too radical a move in the early 60s UK for these people to be able to interact comfortably in a hetero environment, plus the gays had their own world, just as the mods did.

At the same time, I'm sure many gays who were unwilling/unable to come out must have felt attracted to the mod scene.

What's "faux homosexual"? Bollocks! All mods are homosexual!

Seriously though, some people like Long John Baldry were certainly out... And everybody thought that Rod the Mod was gay.

Oo Bop Sh'bam · 2012-01-24 06:57:31

There are only two types of men that are really into their clothes, well dressed gay men, and straight men with a kind of chronic Aspergers. Clothes Geeks if you will. IMO

Last edited by Oo Bop Sh'bam (2012-01-24 06:58:15)

Simon · 2012-01-24 08:22:08

Anybody interested in reading about the crossover between the dress of the soho gay scene and the mods might be interested in this book...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Defining-Dress- … 0719053293

Make a change from Tranny Monthy for you Andy.

carpu65 · 2012-01-24 09:14:12

Hard Bop Hank wrote:
A very English silhouette, this hourglass thing, lots of waist suppression, a nipped in waist, sometimes even "flared skirting", flared sleeves and trouser bottoms...

High button stance, longer jackets. Equestrian details such as slanted pockets and outer ticket pockets, fancy butterfly cuffs and slanted or stepped trouser bottoms...

I think it might have been an extension of the New Edwardian style à la Bunny Rogers that was most popular between 1948 and 1953.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/454 … 953e_o.jpg

The John Steed look in the 60s is similar, isn't it?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RySvBTM_pAY/R … venge2.jpg

Absolutly!
I think that Steed style was "old" new Edwardian + Mods,and from 1966 + Carnaby street.
Was much of Bunny Rogers style in John Steed.
My question is was only a costume?
Were men dress like John Steed in London in early 60s?

woofboxer · 2012-01-24 11:58:41

Simon wrote:
Anybody interested in reading about the crossover between the dress of the soho gay scene and the mods might be interested in this book...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Defining-Dress- … 0719053293

Make a change from Tranny Monthy for you Andy.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed the recurring gay theme in his postings.

Drink · 2012-01-24 12:19:54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRdo7WXTVoM&ob=av2e

steve mcqueen fan · 2012-01-24 12:26:28

woofboxer wrote:
Simon wrote:
Anybody interested in reading about the crossover between the dress of the soho gay scene and the mods might be interested in this book...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Defining-Dress- … 0719053293

Make a change from Tranny Monthy for you Andy.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed the recurring gay theme in his postings.

http://youtu.be/K5dUpKW_4tc

Blucher · 2012-01-24 12:35:41

Hard Bop Hank wrote:
A very English silhouette, this hourglass thing, lots of waist suppression, a nipped in waist, sometimes even "flared skirting", flared sleeves and trouser bottoms...

High button stance, longer jackets. Equestrian details such as slanted pockets and outer ticket pockets, fancy butterfly cuffs and slanted or stepped trouser bottoms...

I think it might have been an extension of the New Edwardian style à la Bunny Rogers that was most popular between 1948 and 1953.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/454 … 953e_o.jpg

The John Steed look in the 60s is similar, isn't it?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RySvBTM_pAY/R … venge2.jpg

And that 1962 City Gent Look that was popular with some mods is also quite similar:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos- … 9124_n.jpg
Picture 3: They do look pleased with life, don't they? Ever tried watching 'The Avengers' as a grown-up? I once tried engaging Diana Rigg in conversation about it. Talk about frosty.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5946/53221474.png

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos- … 6106_n.jpg

Probably throughout the 1950s and 1960s:

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45 … 0001-1.jpg

From 1959: England starts the bell shaped line

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/454 … 73b6_o.jpg

from 1968

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/in … 9&st=0

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/in … &st=54

No idea where the make up comes from... Maybe from actors? The theatre scene in Soho?

Oo Bop Sh'bam · 2012-01-24 12:38:36

Steve, queen fan?

steve mcqueen fan · 2012-01-24 12:54:43

Oo Bop Sh'bam wrote:
Steve, queen fan?

I like "Tie Your Mother Down" by them.

Oo Bop Sh'bam · 2012-01-24 16:29:35

Here's one for Andy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AXAOT_s … re=related

Mike Wallace - The Homosexuals - 1967

What make me laugh is that attitudes like this I've been hearing again. We are devolving.

Simon · 2012-01-24 22:04:38

Anyway, in the book I mentioned it says that the modernists adopted a lot of the gay dress for themselfs. Though colour mainly. Dress for some gay men, though not all, was used as a code. E.g a yellow jumper was thought to be a very "out" garment as were red socks. Bill Howard ( a mod from the Soho era) says in his fiction book Sawdust Ceasares that many people thought that mods were gay men. I've read that gay men used to go to mod clubs on the pull. Its all part of that melting pot that gave modernists there look. Magpies indeed. The brith of modern fashion.

Hard Bop Hank · 2012-01-25 02:44:44

A lot of Soho hustlers might have been involved, too, I think I've read this in a Simon Frith book or in this Hebdidge thing. Not sure, though, about this sociologists' stuff. A lot of "deduction". Usually they make up a theory and then try to find anything that serves as a proof for this, ignoring everything else...

Anyway, these Vince ads are certainly very gay:

Blucher · 2012-01-25 03:03:29

Bill Green intrigues me.

Chris_H · 2012-01-25 03:06:55

Was it George Melly who said "When you buy a tie in Vince's they take your inside leg measurement"......

Blucher · 2012-01-25 03:09:05

LOL! Yes.

#1 2012-01-24 02:22:45

The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#2 2012-01-24 02:51:03

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#3 2012-01-24 03:00:10

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#4 2012-01-24 03:13:07

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#5 2012-01-24 03:23:01

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#6 2012-01-24 04:03:42

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#7 2012-01-24 04:09:00

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#8 2012-01-24 04:09:32

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#9 2012-01-24 04:15:23

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#10 2012-01-24 06:49:40

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

Yuca wrote:

#11 2012-01-24 06:57:31

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#12 2012-01-24 08:22:08

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#13 2012-01-24 09:14:12

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

#14 2012-01-24 11:58:41

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

Simon wrote:

#15 2012-01-24 12:19:54

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#16 2012-01-24 12:26:28

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

woofboxer wrote:

Simon wrote:

#17 2012-01-24 12:35:41

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

Hard Bop Hank wrote:

#18 2012-01-24 12:38:36

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#19 2012-01-24 12:54:43

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

Oo Bop Sh'bam wrote:

#20 2012-01-24 16:29:35

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#21 2012-01-24 22:04:38

Re: The Faux Homosexual Modernist

#22 2012-01-25 02:44:44

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#23 2012-01-25 03:03:29

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#24 2012-01-25 03:06:55

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#25 2012-01-25 03:09:05

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