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#51 2014-10-25 14:05:49

NaturalSoleReprise
Member
Posts: 22

Re: Northern Soul

 

#52 2014-10-25 14:33:48

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#53 2014-10-25 15:28:53

NaturalSoleReprise
Member
Posts: 22

Re: Northern Soul

I don't regard the drug culture as the defining mode of scene expression. It is correct to say that the music and the particular feeling of communally experiencing something a long way from the mainstream are the totems of which the scene can be rightly proud.

The allure, use and misuse of drugs created the infrastructure though. An important distinction. I don't agree with your assertion that those on amphetamine were a minority. That is nowhere near the truth. I would say that the vast majority of regular allnighter goers were what we would call today recreational drug users. They didn't have habits, but dropped gear to enjoy the weekend. Those who maintain they never saw drug use on a wide scale are deluded or simply never went anywhere for long enough.

The profile of drug use and custom changed over time. Attempts by the authorities to criminalise possession of amphetamine and reclassify the drug had the unwanted payoff of bringing speed users into contact with Class A opiates via chemist robberies of DDA cabinets. It also created a gap in the market for criminals to go from minting back street blues and selling stolen pills to building whizz factories on an industrial scale. At the same time this was happening Britain's cities were beginning to be flooded with cheap heroin. A lot of the more reckless 'nighter goers got sucked into that world and more than a few paid a high price.

Also it's a huge mistake to characterise this as merely the province of those in the North West. The soul scene drew its fans from a wide geographical base—I think of strongholds in the west midlands, Gloucestershire, Cambridgeshire, Herfordshire, Derbyshire and so on and think that you're actually less likely to get a rounded view of what went on from citizens of Wigan and neighbouring towns. A lot of those people went to the Casino for a few months because it was on their doorstep and never went anywhere else after the night it closed.

As for Winstanley I think the real scene has always regarded him as something of a joke. Wigan worked in spite of him, not because of him. Never played records anywhere meaningful either before or after the Casino. Wouldn't know a good record if it landed on him. Sought to cash in via the execrable folly of Wigan's Ovation, Casino Classics etc. Presided over the scene's nadir really.

Last edited by NaturalSoleReprise (2014-10-25 17:01:43)

 

#54 2014-10-25 16:27:03

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#55 2014-10-25 17:50:15

NaturalSoleReprise
Member
Posts: 22

Re: Northern Soul

So yours is a considered opinion? An extremely limited anecdotal sample gives you the legitimacy to pontificate on something which by your own admission you don't even like on internet message boards.

 

#56 2014-10-25 18:46:49

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#57 2014-10-25 19:24:42

NaturalSoleReprise
Member
Posts: 22

Re: Northern Soul

I think this is one instance where there is a requirement to have directly experienced some of the topic under consideration.

Northern Soul was and is all about the sensory, the euphoric. Taken out of that context it's very easy to sneer at its rituals and lore. It's those aspects which—when grafted on to the prosaic nuts and bolts of travelling to a club and listening to a record—give any of it a sense that it is not ordinary. The audience sharing that very particular experience becomes the phenomenon.

That's why Northern Soul continues to be culturally undervalued. It's why the music industry couldn't sell it and why much of the writing, even to this day surrounding the release of the film, cannot get a handle on it.

 

#58 2014-10-25 21:05:46

Sammy Ambrose
Member
Posts: 3647

Re: Northern Soul


If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman

 

#59 2014-10-26 02:43:51

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#60 2014-10-26 03:24:51

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6159

Re: Northern Soul

I know nothing (Mr Fawlty) about the Northern Soul Scene other than what I read from time to time. Although I must say it sounds (small word play) good if you were an insider.

But.

I do know a lot about what happened here in the late 60s early 70s in the music /counterculture/politics scene.

I was an active participant in all areas.

And a worker/founder of one of the first street drug agencies in this city. With "rescue" tents at festivals etc.

Theres at least 5 or more  realities about drugs/ no drugs/ hipness/ participation.

 

#61 2014-10-26 03:29:28

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#62 2014-10-26 03:50:43

Dudley Clarke
Member
Posts: 1211

Re: Northern Soul

I can't think of a single thing to say.


I came up to see her sometimes.

 

#63 2014-10-26 03:55:26

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Northern Soul

Last edited by Yuca (2014-10-26 03:57:02)


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#64 2014-10-26 03:59:37

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Northern Soul


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#65 2014-10-26 04:11:25

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Northern Soul


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#66 2014-10-26 04:17:45

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Northern Soul


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#67 2014-10-26 04:20:19

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#68 2014-10-26 04:37:52

fxh
Big Down Under.
From: Melbourne
Posts: 6159

Re: Northern Soul

 

#69 2014-10-26 04:45:06

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#70 2014-10-26 05:04:27

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Northern Soul

You're changing your tune here - presumably because you're on shaky ground. Your original claim was that drugs in general were considerably less prevalent in 70s n soul than in the 80s/90s club explosion. Once you restrict that to comparing the Casino to the 80s/90s club explosion the comparison is flawed - how can you compare one most commercial aspect of a scene to the entirety of another scene? The Casino is the most famous of n soul clubs, but I doubt it is the most revered amongst the majority of people into the soul scene.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#71 2014-10-26 05:08:35

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8543

Re: Northern Soul


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#72 2014-10-26 05:18:49

NaturalSoleReprise
Member
Posts: 22

Re: Northern Soul

The Casino was allowed to flourish as part of a containment policy. Drugs Squads in other parts of the country were incredibly intolerant. Those in West Yorkshire and Humberside basically locked down travel across their borders on most weekends. Those in Lancashire seemed to be far more morally flexible. Do you seriously think they couldn't have shut the Casino if they wanted to? Token efforts had to be seen to be made, but really someone on the force with the help of the Casino management, was making a tidy sum out of all that went on there.

Wigan was indeed—in your words—awash with gear. Most of it was necked before people got into the town itself, mostly to prevent it being stolen by other nighter goers, rather than the small likelihood of getting pinched by the authorities.

You made the point earlier about the Twisted Wheel in its second Whitworth Street location being across the road from a police station. Again do you think there was no collusion between police and the Abadi family who owned it? It closed essentially because they wanted to move into the far more lucrative business of selling alcohol in other town centre clubs.

I suspect we're never going to reach agreement on the drugs issue and turning a discussion thread into a dialogue is tiresome.

It's hardly fanciful to use terms like 'the real scene' because there were meaningful rungs of involvement—from those who saw Wigan's Ovation on TOTP and decided to come along, to those who had been to the Wheel, the Catacombs and other venues from the start. From those who went to a handful of allnighters at the scene's commercial zenith to those who never left and continue to travel every week now. From those who never bought records to those who have collections numbered in the tens of thousands of records. It's always been a scene where status was everything, so it is absolutely valid to talk in terms of stratification. In many ways that's one of the aspects which has always been at the heart of Northern Soul.

Last edited by NaturalSoleReprise (2014-10-26 05:21:40)

 

#73 2014-10-26 05:23:26

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#74 2014-10-26 05:24:13

Sammy Ambrose
Member
Posts: 3647

Re: Northern Soul


If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman

 

#75 2014-10-26 05:31:13

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: Northern Soul


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

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