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#26 2017-01-06 11:41:31

TakasakiJeff
Member
From: UK
Posts: 63

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

4F Hepcat wrote:

TakasakiJeff wrote:

There is a shop in the City that sells rip-offs of the Hermes ones under their own brand, apparently made in the UK, for about £60 with more nautical type patterns (fish, sea horses and so on) in vaguely washed-out colours.  I am trying to avoid walking past it too often.

The King's tailor here has them and you would be hard to tell the difference between a genuine Hermes and these. They're not like cheap Rolex fakes, these are very much the real deal. And at between €70-85 makes more financial sense than Hermes.

You have weakened my resolve.  Might pop in for a seahorse model next week!

 

#27 2017-01-06 23:06:39

Beestonplace
Member
Posts: 1379

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Any idea where to buy knock off Aldens?

 

#28 2017-01-07 09:40:08

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14316

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Beestonplace wrote:

I also think we should also frequent a rip-off of FNB forum,

Surely not that den of inequity: Dressedwell.net?


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#29 2017-01-07 16:31:07

Worried Man
Member
From: Davebrubeckistan
Posts: 15923

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Tassels sometimes. Yeah!

Ties are whimsical enough since I never really need to wear one.  So not that type of guy.  Not into novelty ties.  I enjoy them on others.


"We close our sto' at a reasonable hour because we figure anybody who would want one of our suits has got time to stroll over here in the daytime." - VP of George Muse Clothing, Atlanta, 1955

 

#30 2017-01-08 01:20:33

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14316

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

I can see how whimsical ties as a regular motif, at irregular intervals, would work. That BBC newsreader had a decent shark one on the night of Brexit. But the whimsy would decrease the more you wear them, so the same whimsy would have a very little lifespan. Every week with the same tie and you would soon be seen as affected individual. Probably all the more reason why the skilful use of whimsical ties is worth purposing, if you can do it, your in the A-Team.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#31 2017-01-08 01:24:04

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14316

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Beestonplace wrote:

Any idea where to buy knock off Aldens?

I know where you're coming from, but a tie, is a tie, is a tie. It's not hewn out of 309 steel with complex calibrations and the price tag of a small new car. So yes, I have no problem with a legitimate enterprise that has ties that look and are of same quality as Hermes for a third of the price. I wouldn't buy shoes that were fakes though, not that I've ever seen any, but I did have a pair of No spam! trainers once that fell off the back of lorry. As did every other person wandering around Liverpool at the time.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#32 2017-01-08 03:10:12

Beestonplace
Member
Posts: 1379

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

You are right. I hope that TM Lewin will eventually offer button cuff shirts with three buttons. I mean - TML is a legitimate company, with a long history as shirtmakers. And in the end, its just a shirt - cotton, thread, buttons.

 

#33 2017-01-09 17:29:20

Chévere
Member
From: Baltimore
Posts: 827

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Polka Dot is the politically correct whimsy tie. Outré degree proportional to diameter.


Cógelo suave, pero cógelo.

 

#34 2017-01-22 09:35:18

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14316

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

I was in the King's tailor on Friday and the owner was in and I had a chat and he was most pleased with a new tie he had in which had tigers, lions and five hunting animals on. When he realised I wasn't a hunting man, he said it was also for conservation too!


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#35 2017-01-22 10:53:29

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9050

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

James Laver wrote that he thought tie color vibrancy and pattern whimsy was a sign of male vigor with the brighter, stronger colors and more openly set, whimsical patterns betraying a more youthful and virile man. Not dissimilar to the way blonde women are preferred because it is thought the skin associated with blondes is more vascular and thus more accurately portrays the subcutaneous  health of the female.

Tight patterns and closed patterns are more controlled and it is interesting when after selling his Duchamp label Mitchel Jacobs new Penrose ties were differentiated by making the designs more ordered and serious. Thus they were more in step with the Germanic sense of style  than with the UK one.


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
Facebook: FNB Dandy  Twitter: @DevilsIslandFNB Instagram: fnbdandy

 

#36 2017-01-22 11:38:20

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14316

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Film Noir Buff wrote:

James Laver wrote that he thought tie color vibrancy and pattern whimsy was a sign of male vigor with the brighter, stronger colors and more openly set, whimsical patterns betraying a more youthful and virile man.

Valid, for his time and culture no doubt. You can achieve similar signs of virility through shirts, jackets and perhaps, if you like red pants, in trousers. But whimsical ties now, are particularly whimsical and whimsy can be overdone and cannot survive being brought into the day-to-day. Without rarity, whimsy is just garishness. No one sports whimsy ties everyday now do they?

Laver's Law is still valid.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#37 2017-01-22 12:40:42

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9050

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

4F Hepcat wrote:

Film Noir Buff wrote:

James Laver wrote that he thought tie color vibrancy and pattern whimsy was a sign of male vigor with the brighter, stronger colors and more openly set, whimsical patterns betraying a more youthful and virile man.

Valid, for his time and culture no doubt. You can achieve similar signs of virility through shirts, jackets and perhaps, if you like red pants, in trousers. But whimsical ties now, are particularly whimsical and whimsy can be overdone and cannot survive being brought into the day-to-day. Without rarity, whimsy is just garishness. No one sports whimsy ties everyday now do they?

Laver's Law is still valid.

Laver's culture was UK culture which is the culture that has basically set the tone for business clothes everywhere since perhaps Brummell.


I hadnt thought that through, certainly an interesting counter postulation. Not sure that these other items fall under the category of overt phallic symbols but I see your point. However, the current mode of dress seems to have been to destroy a code and reinterpret it as personal expression as a means of self identity and control over a much too quickly globalizing day to day and perhaps not necessarily a sign of virility. I liken it more to turn of the century Hip Hop culture's desire to wear different and even unknown throwback Skid marked underpants as a sign of individuality without regard to the inherent beauty of the article worn.

Years ago, I saw a man who looked like the twin of Benny Hill's Jackie Wright wearing a fuchsia cashmere overcoat. I dont know if it recaptured any boyish virility but in some ways he was ahead of his time in terms of self expression.


Le costume fait sur mesure en tissue Fresco est le préféré des ploucs!
Facebook: FNB Dandy  Twitter: @DevilsIslandFNB Instagram: fnbdandy

 

#38 2017-06-10 12:22:29

Horace
Member
Posts: 6195

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

stanshall wrote:

tassel loafers: Brooks Brothers cordovan made by Alden: the lawyer's shoe of the '80s, a guilty pleasure, I have a pair in storage and will try to remember to retrieve them because they were comfortable

lawyers would never have survived the '80s without Alden tassel loafers

Jesus, how right this is.  I still support the tassel.  It ain't too much of a hassle.  But I favor mixing it up with the black cordo Brooks Alden (with the ol' foxing on back and unlined if I remember).  Think you can get away with it with blue suit and button down or even a more English collar. 

Black cordo always seemed to me to be one of those things that was somewhat superfluous to have in the ol' shoo inventory.  For a polished calf black shoe was almost the same as a black cordo.  Definitely not distinct as the No. 8 cordo.  But a certain subtle look.

I remember there was a big medieval angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin debate here years ago on whether the Alden tassel and Brooks/Alden tassel were on different lasts.  I said yes.  Others said no.  If memory serves, old Ed Z from ShooMart said they were on different lasts.  ShooMart of course was one of the many places that are old dear Chum Harris (o' where hath he gone?) brought to us.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#39 2017-06-10 12:24:30

Horace
Member
Posts: 6195

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Beestonplace wrote:

Thank god. I am trying to think less about the past than I used to. Unfortunately sounds, musics, smells easily trigger not only single memories, but complete episodes. Drinking makes it worse, even moderately.

I am trying to find (and exercise when I find it) the courage to remember and recreate (if only in the imagination) the past.  I'm finding it a useful (if occasionally difficult and painful) exercise.  On occasion, it isn't without it's rewards and benefits.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#40 2017-06-11 10:58:12

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 10344

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Horace wrote:

stanshall wrote:

tassel loafers: Brooks Brothers cordovan made by Alden: the lawyer's shoe of the '80s, a guilty pleasure, I have a pair in storage and will try to remember to retrieve them because they were comfortable

lawyers would never have survived the '80s without Alden tassel loafers

Jesus, how right this is.  I still support the tassel.  It ain't too much of a hassle.  But I favor mixing it up with the black cordo Brooks Alden (with the ol' foxing on back and unlined if I remember).  Think you can get away with it with blue suit and button down or even a more English collar. 

Black cordo always seemed to me to be one of those things that was somewhat superfluous to have in the ol' shoo inventory.  For a polished calf black shoe was almost the same as a black cordo.  Definitely not distinct as the No. 8 cordo.  But a certain subtle look.

I remember there was a big medieval angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin debate here years ago on whether the Alden tassel and Brooks/Alden tassel were on different lasts.  I said yes.  Others said no.  If memory serves, old Ed Z from ShooMart said they were on different lasts.  ShooMart of course was one of the many places that are old dear Chum Harris (o' where hath he gone?) brought to us.

great to see you here Horace, been too long .....

I've had two pairs of Brooks/Alden tassel loafers over the past 30-odd years, both from Brooks, the first was black calf, second was the No. 8 burgundy cordovan ...  ... the other shoes I used to buy from Brooks Brothers were the old USA-made Sebago-made penny loafers ....

the first pair of black Brooks low-vamp Alden tassels was outgrown and now I've just got the cordovans, which haven't been worn for a while, but one day I'll bust them out ....

the black pair got replaced about twenty years ago by a pair of Alden low-vamp penny loafers in black calf ... they're comfortable ... I have a second pair in unlined brown, they get worn a lot  .....

I haven't bought a new pair of real shoes for almost four years, but I have gotten many pairs of sneakers, and a great pair of moccasins, in that time ....

I would actually like to experiment with black cordovan Aldens, sooner rather than later, but that'll never probably never happen unless all my black calf shoes wear out, which is unlikely since they're good shoes, which I'd resole before handing over a tall stack of cash for new black cordovans ....

I bought good stuff back then and I'm kind of committed to it but there's always a slight possibility I'll treat myself to the waxy black cordo in the future

but you know how it goes, as you get older it's more gratifying to buy stuff for other people in your family than it is to buy it for yourself ....

I did get a great pair of Alden cordovans from Ed at The Shoe Mart years ago, he was great to deal with, I consider it my go-to place for Aldens ....


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#41 2017-06-11 11:04:00

Beestonplace
Member
Posts: 1379

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

We had the black cordo discussion here, initiated by me. I had been in the same situation as you, and I decided not to do it.

Low vamps are very informal, and look odd with a suit, so do chunky Aldens in general. C&Js Sydney is a much better choice when wanting to bridge that gap between uptight formal and relaxed formal.

 

#42 2017-06-11 11:05:20

Beestonplace
Member
Posts: 1379

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

A black cordo loafer is like a 5168 PP Aquanaut in white gold. Expensive, nice, but odd.

 

#43 2017-06-11 11:51:45

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 10344

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Beestonplace wrote:

We had the black cordo discussion here, initiated by me. I had been in the same situation as you, and I decided not to do it.

Low vamps are very informal, and look odd with a suit, so do chunky Aldens in general. C&Js Sydney is a much better choice when wanting to bridge that gap between uptight formal and relaxed formal.

Beest, we've discussed black cordovan in various threads before but I do agree with you, they're "Expensive, nice, but odd."  That is a perfect description of them.

However, even though I haven't worn the Alden tassel loafer for years, partly because mine are packed away and I haven't needed them, I don't think they're chunky at all, and prefer them to the C&J Sydney, specifically because of the cut-out low vamp and the moccasin-like construction.  By comparison, the Sydney seems generic and lacks the curvaceous style of the Alden, though the Sydney looks fine and I'd wear them without hesitation if a pair was given to me.  (I only have one pair of Crockett & Jones, a pair of black monk-straps, which I love and which are very comfortable, they're from the early-to-mid-'80s.)

anyway, I like Alden low-vamp loafers of every kind, they're excellent shoes for hot weather in my opinion, it may be an American preppy thing but there you have it ........

to me they're sweetly nostalgic reminders of the days when Brooks Brothers was great ... more than 30 years ago ....


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#44 2017-06-11 13:25:36

Beestonplace
Member
Posts: 1379

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

Low vamp is feminine, or should be worn by Prussian kings.

 

#45 2017-06-11 14:26:44

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 10344

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

/\  that's alright with me, some people also think pink shirts are feminine, but I wear them too, on occasion .... 

but back to the low vamps, it really is about the air flow and the comfort though I admit I like the fetching way they show off my toe cleavage when I get on the good foot.

Re the King of Prussia, that's just a town near Philadelphia that I've never been to but which apparently has a Brooks Brothers.

Which is the source of the infamous Alden-made tassel loafer, in the classic cordovan, which is what I have and now want to wear even more since this discussion has got me looking forward to hunting through my archives in search of ancient plunder.

In fact, a pink lightweight J. Press end-on-end buttondown in pima (in the '80s J. Press pink), a Brooks poplin olive wash and wear 3/2 patch sack, a Press emblematic tie with a random motif, and the Alden tassel loafers, is just my speed, it's my summer style and it would be well-known to any East Coast prep lawyer of a certain age.  Summer it up because you know you're starting your weekend early kind of thing.  From back in the days when every good firm had a killer law library in the office and a full-time librarian, none of this electronic stuff ...

back in the days of Shepard's Citations, getting the latest supplement so you could check to make sure key cases you were relying on hadn't been reversed .....


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

#46 2017-06-13 02:03:23

Horace
Member
Posts: 6195

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

stanshall wrote:

Horace wrote:

stanshall wrote:

tassel loafers: Brooks Brothers cordovan made by Alden: the lawyer's shoe of the '80s, a guilty pleasure, I have a pair in storage and will try to remember to retrieve them because they were comfortable

lawyers would never have survived the '80s without Alden tassel loafers

Jesus, how right this is.  I still support the tassel.  It ain't too much of a hassle.  But I favor mixing it up with the black cordo Brooks Alden (with the ol' foxing on back and unlined if I remember).  Think you can get away with it with blue suit and button down or even a more English collar. 

Black cordo always seemed to me to be one of those things that was somewhat superfluous to have in the ol' shoo inventory.  For a polished calf black shoe was almost the same as a black cordo.  Definitely not distinct as the No. 8 cordo.  But a certain subtle look.

I remember there was a big medieval angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin debate here years ago on whether the Alden tassel and Brooks/Alden tassel were on different lasts.  I said yes.  Others said no.  If memory serves, old Ed Z from ShooMart said they were on different lasts.  ShooMart of course was one of the many places that are old dear Chum Harris (o' where hath he gone?) brought to us.

great to see you here Horace, been too long .....

I've had two pairs of Brooks/Alden tassel loafers over the past 30-odd years, both from Brooks, the first was black calf, second was the No. 8 burgundy cordovan ...  ... the other shoes I used to buy from Brooks Brothers were the old USA-made Sebago-made penny loafers ....

the first pair of black Brooks low-vamp Alden tassels was outgrown and now I've just got the cordovans, which haven't been worn for a while, but one day I'll bust them out ....

the black pair got replaced about twenty years ago by a pair of Alden low-vamp penny loafers in black calf ... they're comfortable ... I have a second pair in unlined brown, they get worn a lot  .....

I haven't bought a new pair of real shoes for almost four years, but I have gotten many pairs of sneakers, and a great pair of moccasins, in that time ....

I would actually like to experiment with black cordovan Aldens, sooner rather than later, but that'll never probably never happen unless all my black calf shoes wear out, which is unlikely since they're good shoes, which I'd resole before handing over a tall stack of cash for new black cordovans ....

I bought good stuff back then and I'm kind of committed to it but there's always a slight possibility I'll treat myself to the waxy black cordo in the future

but you know how it goes, as you get older it's more gratifying to buy stuff for other people in your family than it is to buy it for yourself ....

I did get a great pair of Alden cordovans from Ed at The Shoe Mart years ago, he was great to deal with, I consider it my go-to place for Aldens ....

Like you, I'm at the point of "how many more shoes do I need."  Having said that, there's something about the black cordo that I like.  The alden tassel (I don't recall if the vamp on the Alden v Brooks Alden is differently cut) is lower but a full trouser takes care of that.  I don't know.  There's something to be said for them.  Especially, the #8 cordo.  Strange how they're sort of looking dated these days.  Though the Trad endures and whatnot.  And to wear them is to perpetuate them.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#47 2017-06-13 11:37:23

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: Staines-upon-Thames, Middlesex
Posts: 5864

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

stanshall wrote:

but you know how it goes, as you get older it's more gratifying to buy stuff for other people in your family than it is to buy it for yourself ....

That's a very nice thought Stan ..............


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

 

#48 2017-06-13 23:10:13

stanshall
Moderator
From: Gilligan's Island
Posts: 10344

Re: Tassels and whimsical ties

woofboxer wrote:

stanshall wrote:

but you know how it goes, as you get older it's more gratifying to buy stuff for other people in your family than it is to buy it for yourself ....

That's a very nice thought Stan ..............

thank you Woof but that was yesterday, today I'm back to being my old self and planning a slew of sneaker purchases for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

seriously though ....


"bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay"

 

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