Really interesting point.

Older has the correct detail and purchased second hand is cheaper than new. You also getting the authentic cut rather than something hybrid.

It's getting hold of it in guaranteed good condition and in the right size that is the problem.

You're also right about brands such as Drakes make a "version" of it. Take, for a moment, the price out of the equation. What you have left is too neat fitting. Ivy above all should be comfortable. Chest drapes should allow for easy movement. Shirts should be soft and comfortable to wear from your home in Westchester through to your office in mid town and back home in time for a martini.

Ivy continues to inspire designers but sometimes their tinkering destroys it.

The availability of jazz music? Via streaming services of course and lacking the tangibility of vinyl or CD, so wouldn’t qualify.

How about the LL Bean Norwegian fisherman sweater? The old one I’ve got is a wool/poly mix, but a few years they changed to 100% wool and they’re still made in Norway. That’s the only thing I can readily think of that’s (possibly) actually better than it once was.

There’s the odd thing that are still good if you’re willing to stump up large amounts of cash, like Alden shoes, but whether they are still as good as they once were, I don’t know enough to say.

I’ll have to think about this, but overall I share your pessimistic view, everything in the West appears to be in decline.

Wow. Unseen Scene. That's pretty profound stuff. These days I too can find my thoughts moving along similar lines, kind of repulsed by the obsession with trivialities and consumption we see all around us. My mum died this year, my partner of 50 years old had a disabling very serious stroke 3 years ago. Life gets deeper and sadder as we age, and our old obsessions get re-prioritised. That said I still fill my head with all this clothes nonsense from time to time. It's the fripperies that help give life a little tingle, that spice it up.

Agreed - at the end of the day, just clothes. Not serious stuff.
Always a danger in nostalgia - longing for a past that probably didn't quite exist.

That said, generally speaking, clothes aren't made anywhere near as enduring these days. Again a crude generalisation though.


Had an old bean Norwegian sweater. Itchy as hell. Could be tempted by a 100% cotton

I think that is similar for a lot of people, RobbieB.

I really appreciate the quality of some of my old sack jackets and suits - as well as all the ivy details, of course. A late 50s Southwick herringbone tweed is a good example. Likewise, old second hand bespoke ivy suits I've picked up cheaply.

I must admit, I also find the backstory to some of the old Gant shirts or whatever kind of fascinating....those small town department stores tagged inside or what have you. That said, points about nostalgia still stand!

Talking of life style changes, I returned to the tropics this year, but this time to a slightly cooler area than previously. Cotton sweaters do come in useful. (Even over a t shirt they're sufficient. Whereas in England for most of the year I need a vest (undershirt), cotton BD and wool sweater just for indoors.)

Which brings me to my point: were sweatshirts available in such a variety of colours back in the day? I thought they were just in grey marl, but it's not something I've actually researched. Now they come in all sorts of delightful tones - maybe a sartorial advantage to the present day in comparison to the past.

Something else: back in the day if you couldn't be bothered to shave it was a bold statement. And not a good one. Whereas nowadays you can invest less time in your appearance (shaving, ironing, shoe care) and still look more groomed than most. Which has its advantages as well as its disadvantages.

Earlier today I was chatting with the missus about her previous jobs. She worked for Jaeger and later for Next. She remarked, unprompted, that I still own 20 year old clothes from Jaeger but anything bought from Next has long since disappeared. Jaeger was of course back then made in UK and more expensive but Next outsourced their manufacturing quite early and it shows. 'You get what you pay for' used to be a saying once upon a time. Jaeger eventually went bankrupt but Next remains one of the few clothes shops on the high street.  I'm not really knocking Next (I'm a shareholder). I just think they probably understand their customers better than some other retailers. We became a throwaway society. Primark is the busiest shop on the Southend high street!

Yes. Older clothing was usually better quality. This was not limited to Ivy. You could get a High Street tailor to make you a garment in a wide choice of fabric for not much money. If you asked for what we called an 'off centre vent' they would do it.

Ben Sherman poly cotton was usually better quality than American polycotton though you got sewn up box pleats and darts as well.

Marks and Spencer were in their pomp for traditional clothing. Good knitwear from unsung Midlands suppliers. Harris Tweed etc. Ninety per cent 'Made in UK' too.

Then they started believing their own publicity and branching out.  Branding was dropped too.

As we used to sing in primary school on March 17th :-

'Hail glorious Saint Michael, dear Saint of our aisle,
On us they poor children bestow a sweet smile.'

Kingston1an - 'If you asked for what we called an 'off centre vent' they would do it.'

I also had a suit made with an off centre vent,(1969) ,  probably the only Ivy detail on the navy blue mohair suit !

House of Fraser in Birmingham was previously known as Rackhams.

It was truly a lovely store that was very much about quality merchandise.

It sold everything from luxury towels and silverware through to food and B&O tv's.

Porters would wear those brown 3/4 jackets beloved by wood working teachers and  a commissioner guarded the front door.

I remember that their knitwear was very good. Mainly made in Scotland. A big mainstay was the Sabre brand. They got rid of either Pringle or Lyle and Scott as it was the target of light fingered casuals.

To get the same quality of knitwear these days requires significant effort/hunting around for.

Writing this has made me acknowledge the sad state of British manufacturing. Where are Christy towels and Sanderson bedding now made? Do they even exist?

Not that older, but more than 7 years...dug out the green Harry Stedman oxford with chest flap pocket and John Simons equivalent striped one in blue & white back when he had a supplier was making the cuffs too tight on the wrists.

Haven't sported them since the middle of 2015. I had put some weight as well, which made them too small, but now I'm back big time at my fighting weight. It took me all of 5-6 years to get back there.

I still pop into M &S in Southend or Stratford and I recently bought some boxer shorts which are a good fit. Pack of 3 about £20.
My missus worked for Jaeger and I have noticed that M & S bought the name and are trying to offer a small selection of clothes for the ladies