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#51 2009-07-17 02:08:31

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Kingstonian wrote:

There the clothes got lost along the way and it degenerated into a personal slanging match.

Which is never very helpful to anyone at all. PK gave some sound advice to GG I think and of course I do agree with your own statement saying you can't have it both ways...

 

#52 2009-07-17 02:15:35

One Trick Pony
Member
Posts: 530

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

There's perhaps a slight division between the 'American' and the 'Italian'.  I'm far more 'American', others will be, to a greater or lesser degree, 'Italian'.  Daniele provides us, it goes without saying, with a sublime example!, which must be the envy of many an English 'mod'.  But didn't UK Ivy, in the very beginning, mix all of this up to present something - I was going to say 'distinctively English', but I'm not sure that I can - ?  Just look at some of the pictures of John Simons and his friends.  They're having a lovely time of it!  A younger man - let's say Adam - might prefer something slightly 'Italian'.  A slightly older man - such as myself - probably benefits from the sack.  The roads have diverged a little, but only a little, and Gibson Gardens, as we know, is a flag-bearer for the Italian male.  More problematic, from my point of view, is the wearing of, say, DMs.  But, if we're allowing 'work wear' and 'Americana' - which we are - they probably belong.  Thus we begin to turn circles.  Much of it, though - I'm convinced of this - is going to depend upon age and experience.  Adam strikes me as open-minded.

 

#53 2009-07-17 02:18:07

1966
1,966% Ivy
Posts: 2378

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5894/cg1l.jpg

That jacket might be kosher but he looks like a retired boxer who, judging by the crumpled hanky, just wanked over himself. And what's with the poo-and-pee coloured tie? Huh?

Yet another lovely discussions fellers. I don't know what I like best: the older gent sounding like an angry young man or the teen (assuming you still are A.) coming across all calm and collected.


38S | 15/32 | 32/28 | US 8.5D/UK 8E
_______________________________

It is a pleasure to be able to quote lines to fit any occasion. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

#54 2009-07-17 02:20:57

ScarletStreet
Member
Posts: 540

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

I knew there was a reason I liked you '66.


"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

 

#55 2009-07-17 02:24:30

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

1966 wrote:

Yet another lovely discussions fellers. I don't know what I like best: the older gent sounding like an angry young man or the teen (assuming you still are A.) coming across all calm and collected.

It's no secret I was born in '62 lol I'd hate having to be angry about anything still......

Last edited by Alex Roest (2009-07-17 02:25:15)

 

#56 2009-07-17 02:26:29

One Trick Pony
Member
Posts: 530

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

1966 wrote:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5894/cg1l.jpg

That jacket might be kosher but he looks like a retired boxer who, judging by the crumpled hanky, just wanked over himself. And what's with the poo-and-pee coloured tie? Huh?

Yet another lovely discussions fellers. I don't know what I like best: the older gent sounding like an angry young man or the teen (assuming you still are A.) coming across all calm and collected.

He looks to me to be a fairly typical male model of the time: a touch of the Adam Faith about him maybe, very much post-'Budgie'.  The tie is excellent, 1966, as is the handkerchief; but you are a very rude young (ish) man!  To think such a thing!

 

#57 2009-07-17 02:29:53

1966
1,966% Ivy
Posts: 2378

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Yeah he's cool (can I use that word?). Cooler than our hot head GG, that's fo' sho'.


38S | 15/32 | 32/28 | US 8.5D/UK 8E
_______________________________

It is a pleasure to be able to quote lines to fit any occasion. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

#58 2009-07-17 02:35:43

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

1966 wrote:

Yeah he's cool (can I use that word?). Cooler than our hot head GG, that's fo' sho'.

I like the way Adam! kept his cool too, especially being that 'teen' you were referring to BTW.

 

#59 2009-07-17 02:37:56

One Trick Pony
Member
Posts: 530

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Not all Stanley Blacker offerings were that classy BTW.  Nasty plaid shirts.  IMO.

 

#60 2009-07-17 02:39:36

ScarletStreet
Member
Posts: 540

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Some of Adam's outfit pictures were among the best ever featured on this forum.


"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

 

#61 2009-07-17 04:18:37

Suitedbooted2000
Member
Posts: 577

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

goodbye all, thanks for teaching me so much

 

#62 2009-07-17 06:10:43

Gibson Gardens
Ivy Author
Posts: 873

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Dismissing that Stanley Blacker jacket on this forum is akin to a Christian who rejects the Bible. Here we are presented with that weirdly straight almost asexual Ivy style in its absolute most perfect expression at the height of the original Golden Age of Ivy. This is a sacred text upon which we are gazing and I react with Al-Qaeda-like fury and intolerance when the very roots of the look are so nonchalantly dismissed with a few ignorant pokes at a keyboard. Ivy is NOT about wearing a plain Made in China T shirt, some Made in China khakis and a pair of Made in China sneakers. That does not mean you've mastered the look. It means you probably want to fit in, look safe and understated, and attract the interest of the opposite sex by appearing unthreatening and pleasingly casual and youthful. Nothing wrong with this of course, most of us do that in our teens, early twenties. But it is my perhaps rather twisted theory that those who are attracted to the Ivy thing in their youth are a little bit, shall we say, unconventional, a bit odd, definitely left-field, rather on the neurotic side. I know I was and so were my cohorts. At the age of 24 I lived for the Ivy look, I ate, slept and breathed the whole thing. A friend coming back from Brooks in 1987, our first pioneer, was greeted like he'd returned from the Moon. He looked different, his teeth were whiter, his hair glossier, his shoes shinier. He brought us carrier bags full of rare treasures. We studied the sales receipts like they were medieval parchments. We would visit J.Simons when it was closed in the evenings and silently stare in the windows. We were dysfunctional, intense and we didn't get any action with the opposite sex for about 4 years. We were all in our little sack jackets, Linet ones from Simons (fabulous quality - the best?), vintage from Flip, the occasional Brooks or JOS A Banks number. We wore our trousers rather too short, had crew cuts and horn-rim specs. We were a bit freakish, but I thought we looked fantastic and I don't regret a moment of it, in spite of our absolute lack of appeal to women. I feel modern youth is a bit too light about all this. I know it's a generational thing but I miss the mad, intense youngsters I used to know. I don't know where it all came from, this seriousness about clothes, but it felt very important back then, a real expression of self and our collective world view. I still get that way now and again which is why I get a bit punchy when a blatantly perfect expression of the style is so casually written off. I learned through people who knew what was what telling me it straight. Johnny Simons and Ian Strachan and Graham Marsh and others always told us where we were getting it wrong. They were our teachers - kind but clear and consistent. It wasn't just clothes, it was all the other associated ephemera. We were learning a code.

GG

 

#63 2009-07-17 06:16:43

1966
1,966% Ivy
Posts: 2378

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

^ Can I say "fundamentalist mentalists?"

Wonderful stuff. Really enjoyed reading that GG.


38S | 15/32 | 32/28 | US 8.5D/UK 8E
_______________________________

It is a pleasure to be able to quote lines to fit any occasion. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

#64 2009-07-17 06:20:05

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

^To be fair to GG the above is the kinda post I've always liked from him. Nothing wrong with being either freakish of neurotic when it spells passion I think. Good post IMO anyway.....

 

#65 2009-07-17 07:09:46

adam!
The Future
Posts: 608

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

GG, that was a great post.

You were lucky to have had friends who loved the Ivy League look as much as you do - we aren't all so lucky(that's not to say my friends don't dress well - they do -  though some of them in their own special way...). It makes doing this much harder, believe me.

Also consider how lucky you were to have grown up so close to "the boom years" - for me, finding those old Brooks or J. Press shirts is a trawl that I can honestly neither afford nor be bothered with, what with it involving buying mostly from America.

 

#66 2009-07-17 09:11:05

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

GG was THERE and it shows.

My path was similar, yet different. I had older guys telling me 'This is all rubbish' as they looked around the world I was negotiating my way through. They pointed me to JS, to the 346, to the wider world.

"Freaks" were always the other people, never us.

... And so I'd like to reclaim:

Informed intolerance.
Certainty based on good scholarship.
Having a vision of what it is that you are doing.
Having a focused approach to style.

... Stuff like that - These were all virtues back in the 80's, before the online idea that there are no hierarchies.

 

#67 2009-07-17 09:41:39

One Trick Pony
Member
Posts: 530

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Amen, Amen, Amen...

 

#68 2009-07-17 09:54:28

One Trick Pony
Member
Posts: 530

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

It requires a lot of guts to embrace the kind of freakishness to which Gibson Gardens is referring.  How many times have I taken trousers for alteration and been quizzed on why I want them precisely so?  Un-English, you see.  Then there was GGs defence of Brownshoe's choice of spectacles: the perfect looking Brownshoe, Ivy writ large.  This is a clarion call, a wake up call - you do understand that, don't you?  This is not 'cartoon mod' or 'skinhead', it's Ivy League: narrow and specific and, yes, uninclusive if you like.  I've had to take a step back from it.  If I lived in London I might well be gazing into JSs window by the light of the full moon.  One's mouth waters for the goodies that are no more.  I'm having to be firm with myself, so that I can take that first vital trip to Cape Cod in 2010.

 

#69 2009-07-17 10:07:37

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

All it takes is knowing your stuff.

No 'Trad' has ever really gone head to head with me, because just to call yourself a 'Trad' in the first place is be a lesser thing than to be an Ivy League fan...

- They know that the first thing I'll bring up is the fact that they got their name off the Internet sometime after 2004 amidst a sea of trolling...

- Then there's those who latch on to the post 'Trad' blogs - Even those who use the 'Ivy' name (with a few VERY notable exceptions) - All they are is secondary (or maybe tertiary) products of the original 'Trad' troll.

- 'Preppy' is also a lesser thing too - Slice it how you like.


Welcome to the Hardline. American style viewed as being as kosher as Savile Row.  Stuff yer fashion crazes and online MB cartoon games.

Best -

 

#70 2009-07-17 11:23:20

1966
1,966% Ivy
Posts: 2378

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Russell_Street wrote:

Even those who use the 'Ivy' name (with a few VERY notable exceptions) - All they are is secondary (or maybe tertiary) products of the original 'Trad' troll.

So everyone who uses the "Ivy" term is unknowingly springing from the same source, the one where the trolls lived. H'okay. That's a bit mono-causal, perhaps.

Don't get me wrong, "your" work has been monumental, and I bet it has caused a parade of cling-ons, but ^ that sounded a bit simplified.

Carry on.

Love and kisses, your humble apprentice.


38S | 15/32 | 32/28 | US 8.5D/UK 8E
_______________________________

It is a pleasure to be able to quote lines to fit any occasion. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

#71 2009-07-17 11:27:02

Staceyboy
Ivy Archivist
Posts: 936

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

That last piece by GG is one of the best things that I've ever read on this board - and I don't mean that in any way, shape or form to decry ANY of the other posters here. The way in which he conveyed his passion (and perhaps he and his friends' shared isolation) struck a massive chord with me and although their formative years had parallels there are very distinct differences to mine. I (hope) that I can appreciate true passion in anyone whether I've walked a mile in their wingtips or not. I hope too that our more 'Mod' inclined posters are not discouraged to air their views or worse still give up on the board completely (Suitedbooted?) For the record, I do not come from a Mod background whatsoever but I can appreciate many of its facets though they are not part of my life. My sub cultural shift was from Punk to Rockabilly to R'n'B to Jazz and, during the course of a long weekend, I can listen to and love records of all those genres. And that's to say nothing about the clothes! I'm here for the Ivy, baby. When I posted that Stanley Blacker/Cecil Gee ad I had no idea that a bit of a shit storm would ensue. Are we now in the calm AFTER the storm? I hope so - and if it has promoted discussion, passion, re-assessment and re-instatement of our values then bring it on!

Peace brothers,

Staceyboy

 

#72 2009-07-17 12:20:21

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

1966 wrote:

Russell_Street wrote:

Even those who use the 'Ivy' name (with a few VERY notable exceptions) - All they are is secondary (or maybe tertiary) products of the original 'Trad' troll.

So everyone who uses the "Ivy" term is unknowingly springing from the same source, the one where the trolls lived. H'okay. That's a bit mono-causal, perhaps.

Don't get me wrong, "your" work has been monumental, and I bet it has caused a parade of cling-ons, but ^ that sounded a bit simplified.

Carry on.

Love and kisses, your humble apprentice.

No, no, no, no, no - You get it absolutely, '66 -

There was nothing really very much here online until we (not 'I') started fucking with those Gawd-awful menswear forums like AAAC back in '04. That tit 'Harris' was a gift from God - We could use his nebbishy schtick to build on - And we did.

All the online stuff now builds from THAT. 'The Curriculum' is just a spin-off from our 'Trad'. 'Ivy-Style' comes from 'Russell Street' working on Chensvold. 'Laguna Beach Trad ' just by calling himself 'Trad' is all a part of this too.

It's all of a piece.

From 'Trad' we started talking about 'Ivy' & then 'Ivy' took off.

The only other strain in all this online comes from GG & Chris_H on Modcult., I would say.

GG went on to do more than any of us & C.H. remains just as sane as he was the day he started.

Who else has DRIVEN all of this online?

It's YOUR team, '66, who makes the running online.

NOBODY online is free from our influence on this subject of ours.

We got there first.

Fact!

Best -

 

#73 2009-07-17 12:46:22

Staceyboy
Ivy Archivist
Posts: 936

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Amen RS, amen. I'm at home drinking whisky macs on the rocks, feet up on the coffee table and digging the vibe. Must remember that I have to go to work tomorrow.

Staceyboy

 

#74 2009-07-17 13:06:35

1966
1,966% Ivy
Posts: 2378

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

Just some critique on what you just implied Jim, raising my glass to your good self and mr Staceyboy and everyone else reading this in the process. I'm not trying to defend myself here, I'm just not buying the idea that everything "Ivy" online came from just one source.

You may have been the first to surface and play on the 'net but that's not the same as originating all this. Take mr Weejun, he wasn't there with the trolls but he'd been at it regardless. Someone who's been at it for decades may surface online tomorrow, with no relation to what the trolls accomplished.

That's all.
Cheers fellers.

Last edited by 1966 (2009-07-17 13:20:03)


38S | 15/32 | 32/28 | US 8.5D/UK 8E
_______________________________

It is a pleasure to be able to quote lines to fit any occasion. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

#75 2009-07-17 13:45:12

Chris_H
Ivy Original
Posts: 1506

Re: Stanley Blacker at Cecil Gee

That Stanley Blackler blazer reminds me of the Esquire(?) picture Graham Marsh used to illustrate his "No Room For Squares" essay. Keep them coming Staceyboy!

 

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