You are not logged in.
#27 2009-08-31 19:42:10
- tmc22
- Member
- Posts: 101
Re: Kennedy Style
I should stick to clothes on this site. But undeniably Ted and his family were very conservative dressers. My point is that labels get mixed up. Someone who is trying to conserve the basic principals of society may advocate change and someone who advocates no change whatsoever may be ensuring the destruction of society. On the way back from Saratoga today I heard Sam Tannenhaus say something similar while plugging his new book. Now that guy is a conservative. don't know where he buys his clothes though.
Disraeli was the great advocate of expansion of the franchise. He knew that the enfranchised working class voters would be in significant part conservative "angels in marble". jack Kennedy laughed at liberals like Adlai Stevenson. Bob Kennedy was an opponent of the welfare state. The AMA thought that Medicare was socialized medicine and became wealthy because it was passed into law. Nixon was the last great Liberal president. Half his radical ideas were rejected by Democrats who now would pass them in a minute.
#28 2009-09-01 01:55:36
- Horace
- Member
- Posts: 6433
Re: Kennedy Style
""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.
#29 2009-09-01 02:08:41
- Kingstonian
- Member
- From: sea to shining sea
- Posts: 3205
Re: Kennedy Style
FNB will be along soon to remove anything remotely political from the above posts.
The remaining shell will then be deposited in the new 'Interchange' section.
Posters who spend time there should be aware that they will be closely monitored.
#31 2009-09-01 05:15:25
- rsmeyer
- Member
- From: Chevy Chase, MD
- Posts: 751
Re: Kennedy Style
Incidentally, Horace, my reading of conservative lit-much of which I admire-goes back to Burke, Tocqueville and Johnson. That's a bit before 1926.
#32 2009-09-01 05:17:24
- Gibson Gardens
- Ivy Author
- Posts: 873
Re: Kennedy Style
On a much more banal, but perhaps more relevant to the focus of this forum, note, may I just add that the greatest contribution of the Kennedys to the superficial (debate) world of Ivy style clothing is twofold :
1. The JFK tennis point collar. Much revered by the J.Simons/old school London Ivy contingent. I hear there is a shirtmaker in one of the St.James' arcades (Budd I think) currently selling a great blue Oxford cotton number.
2. The mixture of polo shirt with tweed sport jacket. I have great pictures of both JFK and Bobby doing this look with great elan.
GG
#40 2009-09-01 17:28:20
- tmc22
- Member
- Posts: 101
Re: Kennedy Style
I just ask people to think. Is a military commitment in the mideast a liberal position or is it a conservative position? Jefferson sent a fleet to the mideast. McKinley sent armies into asia and the Carribean. Wilson sent armies into Europe when no one had declared war against us. FDR sent armies into Asia and Europe after countries had declared war against us.
Was it really a conservative position to advocate segregation or to oppose the abolition of segregation? No sensible conservative believed in the propagation of segregation. Though that is sometimes labeled a conservative view. Nixon was the foremost opponent of segregation when he was VP under Ike. yet he was the author of the Republican Southern strategy. What do these labels mean?
Is it really a conservative position to believe in the imposition of a religious centric view of the role of secular marriage. Or is it a conservative to believe in individual freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Ted Olsen was W's lawyer in 2000 but he is leading the legal assault on the gay marriage ban in California. All I ask people to do is think beyond the high school grads or drop outs on talk radio. Who is preserving the best of our values? Who is advocating a path that will destroy them?
#41 2009-09-02 03:07:38
- Kingstonian
- Member
- From: sea to shining sea
- Posts: 3205
Re: Kennedy Style
What was the Monroe doctrine ? America does not get involved in other peoples wars but do not mess in our backyard (South America) ?
Other parts of your post touch on 'culture wars'. Paleos claim US values have already been undermined, so conserving will not do.
Nixons presidency was interesting and the tapes give a fascinating and unique insight into that era.
#43 2009-09-02 04:49:18
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: Kennedy Style
And as your moderator I'm here to tell you that I really admire the way in which this discussion is being held.
I notice that Tom self-censored himself a few posts back... Tom, there's no need to do that here.
My only very general advice to the forum is that we keep on talking, but don't personalise things.
We'll get a much better conversation that way.
Best,
Jim
Last edited by Russell_Street (2009-09-02 04:50:37)
#44 2009-09-02 04:52:53
- Beatnik
- Member
- Posts: 604
Re: Kennedy Style
I always felt Ted's trousers were a touch on the long side. If they had been cut higher perhaps he could have waded into that river and pulled that poor girl out...
#46 2009-09-02 05:04:27
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: Kennedy Style
Everybody has something to say.
But we all lose out if we start to confuse opinions with the people who voice them.
Deconstruct what your fellow posters have to say by all means, but let's not deconstruct our fellow posters themselves over here.
We can enjoy disagreeing without getting too personal that way.
And when we disagree we add to the breadth of knowledge over here.
... maybe.
Let's pull apart ideas & not each other.
#48 2009-09-02 05:31:31
- Beatnik
- Member
- Posts: 604
Re: Kennedy Style
I was more a fan of Jack Ruby's style...
The Beatles played my home town on the evening of JFK's assasination in '63...
#49 2009-09-02 15:46:09
- rsmeyer
- Member
- From: Chevy Chase, MD
- Posts: 751
Re: Kennedy Style
Last edited by rsmeyer (2009-09-02 15:46:54)
#50 2009-09-02 19:21:47
- tripchauncey
- Member
- Posts: 568
Re: Kennedy Style
Chums,
Whilst I had originally written this thread off as rantings,, me thinks the liberal/conservative discussion has merit and shows how labels and ideologies do not survive 'istory well.
Ol JFK did lower taxes and expanded the economy.
He was a hardline cold warrior.
And,, all the biggest Hawks on Vietnam (the whole cocktail set that ol Alden Pyle idolizes - MacNamara,,Alsop.ect.) were all Democrats.
The biggest segregationalists were (Byrd,, Thurmond) all Democrats,,no? In the deep ol South of Alabamy and wherenot,, the Republican party was still the party of African Americans.
By most accounts,, ol JFK only pushed the Civil Rights Act because he had to politically.
So,, was ol Ken a conservative or liberal? I dont know. I shall offer a way forward tho.
To paraprhase ol FNB,, me thinks that it can be agreed that JFK,, and most of the ol pols of that era,, were Establishment-ists. `Despite ol Stink's writing JFK off as that bootleggers son,, ol Joe Kennedy worked hard to polish his sons to assimilate to the Establishment of the Cabots, Lodges and Stevensons,, at least to teh public eye.
The world has changed. Now it is all about appealing to the special interest,, not the establishment. If a modern politician were to display his wealth and education like the Kennedys did,, he would be written off as an elitist and ripped arm from arm. Out with cufflnks and in with rolled sleeves on workshirts.
Interesting topic indeed.
Cheerio.