Dear Mulberrywood,
Assuming time permits and it's something you would like to write about. I would very much like to hear your take on what gives a tie that light and foamy feeling even if the silk is rather heavy. I have noticed that within the highest quality and/or price ranges some ties are more crisp and have more spring to them; they allow a great dimple as well as staying up under the collar all day while others seem to droop, pull down and the dimple slips constantly.
Best,
FNB
FNB,
When I read your letter I had to pause for a moment as there are a number of variables to think about.
When I hear that a tie feels light my first thought is that the silk is probably light and the construction a standard three-fold with a light interlining.
With an unlined seven-fold using a very heavy 350 warp jacquard weave you might end up with a light feeling but not a "foamy" one.*
Now the best ties as a general rule will have a 100% wool interlining. The wool interlining is what gives a tie great wrinkle resistance, and the wool interlining is the answer to your question. I used to from time to time open up ties to look at their interlinings and construction and it is amazing how many makers these days are cutting corners. Please don't ask me who uses the cheap poly mix interlinings as I try to stay away from trouble on the forums...
But I have had one US interlining maker (now out of business) tell me that the poly mix interlinings give the ties snap. I didn't buy his logic, or interlinings although I would have saved quite a lot of money. Another small maker of ties well known on these forums uses a poly mix interlining but in his case I will be polite and say that he doesn't know what is in his ties and just trusts his Italian contractors who are pulling a fast one on him.
I was in a high-end mens store that carries 11 fold ties the other day and I noticed how they keep their ties at a resonable weight - they use a very light-weight satin. Amusingly the salesman told me that last month the 11 fold tie company owner came into the store and explained that it took him 5 months to develop his pattern.
With a straight face I watched the saleman tell the story, and then I politely asked him if he was serious and he said yes. I smiled and thanked him for the story and walked away.
The truth is that making a new tie pattern is going to take less than a day. We make everything from three to eight-fold ties daily and if you know what you are doing it is not that difficult.
Ralph Lauren's purple label ties do use 100% wool interlinings for which I give him credit. Also a number of English and Italian highend makers use all wool - but not always.
*As for ties that have a foamy feeling yet are light and still crisp there is a technique for that which on occasion we will use: If a client wants thickness but not more weight we can use a 100% wool interlining and then add a layer of cotton, which we carefully sew onto the wool. This technique is used in Italy but usually they cut corners and just layer the second cotton fabric on top of the wool instead of sewing it on.
Thanks for this. Good stuff. I was always curious about it. How long does it take one of your workmen to make a standard tie?
edit: since you've been asked other quertions, and answered them in detail (like the one on American/English/Thai silks, etc.), it'd be nice to have them all in one thread, I suppose. Maybe you have all that info on the website. Haven't checked all the sections in a while.
After someone pointed out the those "Trad" ties you did, I took a look. Off-the-Hook. Esp. that navy/red/gold.
Last edited by Horace (2006-11-22 03:57:29)
David-
I appreciate your response and you correct understanding of my point. I actually think that your attitude is terrific, and that is borne out by your response here. As far as six versus seven, it doesn't bother me so much, as the idea is a folded tie. IIRC, they used to make seven but found, like you, that the six were better ties and didn't want to relabel. The others I don't really know about other than Talbott uses some very ugly silks at times.
I would like to tell you that your response make me a more likely purchaser in the future.
KP
Well, as to your question on preference, I prefer a six-fold, with one strip of wool and no lining. Kiton ties are too squishy for me.
I too must've misread one of Mulberywood's statements. But such is the nature of our medium. Most of us read these forums pretty quickly, so between implication and inference, there's something that can get lost or twisted.