Where's your post, Jesmond?

...

You're right!

Punks and rockabillies didn't exist in the 1930s... It was a new gentlemen fashion back then, it was still hip 20 or 30 years later, and it's a classic, now...

Any pics of the Bally and the British Walkers that the hip hop forum mentions, Mr Weejun? I'm curious...

Pray tell, brother!

but what about the Bally Rallye?

Or was it just a joke?

On the whole subject of them being "ivy", and based on what fragnments i`ve picked up on the subject, i think of it like this:


Playboy`s were originally made in Northampton, England in the 50`s.Northampton was one (if not THE) shoe-making capital of the world at that time.Northampton shoe-makers were invariably master craftsmen, and took great pride in their wares and the quality of their world renowned name as master shoesmiths.

My guess is that, despite the novel design,  the conception of the original playboy style shoes was designed to complement the range of other high quality  and traditionally classic, gentlemanly shoe models offered by these well established Northampton shoe makers.

These shoes were not designed to sell to punks or rockabilly`s , because punks and rockabilly`s - as we now appreciate them- didn`t EXIST at that time.


This was a time when fathers and sons still wore very similar clothing.


From the little i`ve picked up on the subject, i have been informed that playboy style footwear, made in England, was available for purchase in higher end New York stores , certainly as far back as the 60`s. (I`ve already taken the liberty, on earlier Talk Ivy pages , of reproducing verbatim, the correspondence i received from a guy who was purportedly from New York and bought his beloved made in England pb`s, back in the day).



My source styled himself leroyusbanker@******* in our correspondence. LeRoy, as he signed himself off (and as his name was styled) may or may not have been black American, but spoke of wanting to relay latest news on current manufacture of made in England pb`s to his "brothers", who`d also worn pb`s back in the day.


Furthermore, he went on to name several high end New York stores that had sold playboys during the 60`s. In his eyes, he seem`d to described his own 60`s American Ivy League style as being something of a take on an English country look.Suede playboy chukka`s, whipcord pants, crew and v neck sweaters, gabardine pants & tweed jackets (to be superceded by  suede, in the latter part of the 60`s and early part of the 70`s) were all cited...

He said something along the lines of reminiscing about the old day`s of  "St. Peters Prep" (and so i guessed that he was an alumnus).

http://www.stpetersprep.org/

I think i read that Horace, of FNB & TI  ,recalls the playboy type chukka being sold at Brooks Brothers.I believe Horace is based in the North East of USA. Of course, this is the territory of the wasp-ish,  US Ivy League college`s, that originally handed down to us the "look".


I believe the new and novel, original playboy style footwear that found it`s way to USA, and was stocked in high end New York stores, would originally have been picked up on by wealthier, more sophisticated US consumers, who were desirous of quality imorted goods, and especially if they came with the slightly snobby, waspish cachet of being `Made In England.`

I`m guessing  that there would have been comfortably well-off ,North Eastern fathers , aswella as sons, who  would have worn these gentlemanly, and quirky new imported British shoes.They were of course of the same plantation crepe family  as the earlier, more ubiquituous and more in-obtrusive traditional English desert boot.


My hypotheses is that younger, rich New Yorkers would have taken these new English made shoes back to campus.I really don`t know how ubiquitous or otherwise they would have been on campus, but i suspect the latter. I believe that they would have been part of the greater north east , ivy league clothing style mix; certainly, in the early sixties .


This type of footwear  wouldn`t have had the same connotations in the US, that we have come to think of, in the UK; namely, Teds, Rockabilly`s, Punks.

Even in England, these connotations would have come later. I believe that the first wearers of this type of footwear in the austere , post war Britain of the 50`s, were ex-guards officers in mufti.

In Paul Gorman`s book "The Look", he mentions this and describes a slightly underground , particular scene , or clique, where clubbish guards officers (who may or may not also have included gay men amongst their number...) affected well cut Edwardian style clothing, along with the louche styling of this quirky new suede chukka footwear.

I believe spivs and Teds, emerging around this time of bleak austerity,  may then have gone on to try to appropriate this "upper crust" look. What followed was the usual filtering downwards of the look; so that the look and it`s many nuances and subtleties was lost as it spread out towards the provinces.

I expect Teds became a gross caricature of what had gone on originally.And so on to Rockabilly, Punk etc...In much the same way that i think of later skinheads and 70`s revival "mods".

The early originators and innovators had moved- on.


Getting back to the US, i think the early "beat" generation students in those NE colleges would have been a well meaning lot, with liberal (for their times) views, and a love of contemporary (black ) jazz music.

However, i think anyone with an `eye` for these things can appreciate that playboys offer any wearer the potential for sartorial subversion.Yes, they are seemingly and ostensibly tasteful , but they can , as we well know, also appear badass, and provoke strong sentiment and reaction.The subversion is intrinsic.

I think the limited numbers of  affluent , and middle class black guys who would have been exposed to the ivy league style would have
picked up on the inherent funkiness of this style of fotwear which `set you apart` on a whole range of levels.They were importantly perceived to be a part of the established order, and milieu, but were also just a little "apart from it ", too. They needed that, too, for their own core identity , too.To me, there is no other footwear that can subvert the tasteful ivy league clothing wardrobe, as much as Playboy footwear.


Tweaking perceptions...

Deep stuff, i know(!).


My guess is that at this particular time, white  college guys might have got just a little a bit of  ribbing, & joshing  from their white (ostensibly liberal and sometimes snobbish, or indeed somewhat rascist) peers, as this type of footwear was slowly picked up on by black, jazz loving dudes in the cities. Nothing malicious, but you know the sort of thing..gentle pressure that this type of footwear is "not really quite the thing for US, ..."


I think playboy style footwear has always been attractive to, and been worn by, individuals who`ve been instinctive outsiders.Eccentrics etc...

I seem to recall J.Simons web page had a a pic of a famous  60`s (or 50`s) architect wearing an off -white , 3 pc plus 4 suit with ecru socks and brown playboy shoes(!). I may have imagined this...



This is only my personal  perception of things and may or may not be the actual case.