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#1 2007-01-13 04:30:08

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

In any of Boyer's books does he discuss the influence of Charles II and the "invention" of the modern 3 piece suit?  I thought he did, but I'm not certain.  I remember someone making the argument that the English employed the vest to distinguish themselves from the French.  Will, in his blog, calls for the return of the vest, by the way.  I found an older (1970's) piece by Boyer on the vest in court of Charles II and I wonder if he'd have any objections to it being reprinted.  If any of you know, would you mind asking for me.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#2 2007-01-13 05:21:28

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

Can't help with Boyer.
Paul Keers (was it?) talks about Charles II & vests I think.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#3 2007-01-13 09:45:25

richt
Member
Posts: 341

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

 

#4 2007-01-13 12:37:24

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#5 2007-01-13 12:57:34

Will
Member
From: San Francisco
Posts: 239

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

Boyer has an eight page essay on vests in Elegance.

According to him, Charles II introduced them to his court in 1666 "to teach the nobility thrift."


Will's thoughts on classic men's clothing
http://www.asuitablewardrobe.net/

 

#6 2007-01-13 14:26:03

bosthist
Member
Posts: 220

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

 

#7 2007-01-14 08:42:34

richt
Member
Posts: 341

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

 

#8 2007-01-15 07:30:25

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

Thanks Bosthist.  Great idea.  Yes, that should be quite a show.  I think I've gotten some info. on that.  I was sorry to see that the Ath had no crest fridge magnets anymore.

Richt: much thanks.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#9 2007-01-15 14:36:30

bosthist
Member
Posts: 220

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

While they may not still have the crest magnets, they do have club ties, with "10 1/2" in circles as the motif.

 

#10 2007-01-17 07:44:00

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#11 2007-01-17 10:37:03

richt
Member
Posts: 341

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

Horace and Will:

I've consulted "The Englishman's Suit" by Hardy Amies regarding the evolution of the vest. Sorry for the delay.

I haven't read the Boyer essay, but what you both say here seems to be in agreement with what I found in Amies' book.

I'm paragraphising, but he says that the English King Charles II, introduced the vest. Amies quotes Samuel Pepys on the subject: "October 15th 1666. This day the King begins to put on his vest, and I did see several persons in the House of Lords and Commons too, great Courtiers, who are in it, being a long cossock close to the body, of black cloth, and pinked with white silk under it, and a coat over it..."

Amies also quotes the Handbook of English Costume in the 17th Century (1963) by Dr. Willet Cunnington: "It is customary to regard the modern style of male costume as originating from the reign of Charles II when the suit compoased coat, waistcoat (or vest...) and breeches, garments which necessitated improvements in the tailor's skill."

There were two reasons for the vest, he says, one was practical: to provide another layer of clothing for added warmth during the brisk British winters. The other was political. To undermine the French influence on fashion.

The court of Charles the II "....dressed in fashions deeply influenced by Versailles. But at the same time the houses of the aristocracy were on estates; their owners dressed in riding clothes."

Hope this helps a bit. 

.

 

#12 2007-01-17 15:09:06

bosthist
Member
Posts: 220

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

Horace:

I haven't purchased an Athenaeum tie.  The colors don't appeal to me.  Perhaps if they were to do one in a dark green....

In re: vests

From Liza Picard's "Dr. Johnson's London"

"A man's glory was his waistcoat.  These could, of course, be used for the utilitarian purpose of keeping the cold out, worn even two at a time.  But when Samuel Johnson thought, mistakenly, that he would hat to bow to a cheering audience when his play Irene was pit on by his friend David Garrick, he dressed up in a 'scarlet waistcoat with rich gold lace'.  Spitalfields silks made for waistcoats were woven in small all-over designs, lending themselves to elaboration at the fronts and pocket flaps, which were often skilfully woven into the fabric.  The visible parts of the waistcoat could be bought ready-embroidered, and made up at home or by a tailor.  The back would be a plain material, with a buckled-strap to adjust the fit."

 

#13 2007-01-17 19:22:06

passingtime
Member
Posts: 57

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

 

#14 2007-01-17 20:57:47

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#15 2007-01-17 21:05:25

bosthist
Member
Posts: 220

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest

There is a red or burgundy one, and a royal blue.  I may still pick one up once I get my Harris tweed back from the tailor--it seems to cry out for a club tie.

 

#16 2007-01-17 21:09:00

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Boyer on the modern origins of the vest


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

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